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-   -   How do you control rally from the baseline? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=471991)

rrito 07-30-2013 08:21 PM

How do you control rally from the baseline?
 
General question, how do you control a rally from the baseline(in match, aggressive rallying)?

I'm asking this question because I'm mainly a baseliner (4.0) who plays a counterpunching style, which I don't really like. I demo'ed a ig prestige mp and a blade98 2013 today, found that i can generate aggressive topspin angle shots with the prestige more consistently than the blade, but I needed to spend a lot of power on groundstrokes. Whereas with the blade, I generated power and heavy shots easily, but could not play aggressive topspin angle shots consistently.

Any thoughts?

Cheetah 07-30-2013 08:28 PM

How would you control a baseline rally if players were required to play with the same standard issue racquet every time?

5263 07-30-2013 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrito (Post 7625255)
General question, how do you control a rally from the baseline(in match, aggressive rallying)?

I'm asking this question because I'm mainly a baseliner (4.0) who plays a counterpunching style, which I don't really like. I demo'ed a ig prestige mp and a blade98 2013 today, found that i can generate aggressive topspin angle shots with the prestige more consistently than the blade, but I needed to spend a lot of power on groundstrokes. Whereas with the blade, I generated power and heavy shots easily, but could not play aggressive topspin angle shots consistently.

Any thoughts?

sure, a couple of things, but
why not like a counter punch style?
Imo, every good player is a counter puncher at his base. They rally aggressively
till they get an attack-able ball to really go after, then transition back to baseline
or on in to net to finish.
What else are you going to do? Try to hit winners from the baseline??
Or hit an approach and crash net every point against poly powered baseliners
who love a target to pass?

No, ...counter punch is the Style of Most of the Greats, with some being more
aggressive on the rally than others, but it is still the same. Rally to get a UE or
short ball....then go more offensive on the attack.

How to control a rally?
Either you hit heavy Top spin with some good power and depth or
you really drive the ball strongly to open court with the occasional
hit behind them, or
you mix these two.

Ballinbob 07-30-2013 09:18 PM

Yeah what's wrong with counter punching? I don't know about controlling the rally from the get-go but works for me is just hitting deep cross court until I get a short ball. Once you get a short ball I usually go for a winner or approach down the line

10isfreak 07-30-2013 09:37 PM

There‘s nothing wrong about counterpunching... as someone said, the basic of tennis strategy is too WAIT for the right ball or for a mistake.

To control a rally, you need a wise mixture of stroke quality, shot selection, dynamic footwork and court positionning... it‘s very long to explain, so be more precise about what yyou need to improve.

rrito 07-30-2013 09:55 PM

My problem with my counterpunching game is that I put every ball back at the guy instead of making him run and do things that can result in unforced errors or short balls. I find myself getting tired running and being pushed around a lot. I would like to be aggressive from the start. Occasionally I go for aggressive returns but I keep on hitting them out with the power racquet (eg blade 98) I use for retrieving shots. I have to admit that I do have many areas to work on technique-wise (footwork, stroke quality). Thank you for your input and I'm open to more opinions or questions!

10isfreak 07-30-2013 10:19 PM

First tip
Increasing the quality of your shot isn‘t always necessary to be more agressive. Sometimes, your opponent will leave you some space to move slightly forward because rare arw those who can force you out of no man‘s land for the whole match. Even if your contact point is just an inch inside the baseline, that‘s an inch you want to take away from your opppnent. The bottom line: hit as many balls as you can from inside the baseline.

Second tip
Develop a reliable backhand slice. It‘s not meant to simply keeping the ball in play when you are pressured... you can use it to force your opponent to make adjustmentsbetween your top spin and back spin shots.

Third tip
When you‘re under pressure, think about a deep cross court ball. No need for extreme pace or spin, just a good ball placement will likely bring you back in the game.

rrito 07-31-2013 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isfreak (Post 7625413)
First tip
Increasing the quality of your shot isn‘t always necessary to be more agressive. Sometimes, your opponent will leave you some space to move slightly forward because rare arw those who can force you out of no man‘s land for the whole match. Even if your contact point is just an inch inside the baseline, that‘s an inch you want to take away from your opppnent. The bottom line: hit as many balls as you can from inside the baseline.

Second tip
Develop a reliable backhand slice. It‘s not meant to simply keeping the ball in play when you are pressured... you can use it to force your opponent to make adjustmentsbetween your top spin and back spin shots.

Third tip
When you‘re under pressure, think about a deep cross court ball. No need for extreme pace or spin, just a good ball placement will likely bring you back in the game.

Thank you for the tips!

sundaypunch 07-31-2013 06:53 AM

The most important thing you can do is to keep the ball deep. Your goal is to keep the opponent from going on the offensive. Hitting with pace and a lot of spin is not effective if the ball is landing short of the service line.

10isfreak 07-31-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundaypunch (Post 7625856)
The most important thing you can do is to keep the ball deep. Your goal is to keep the opponent from going on the offensive. Hitting with pace and a lot of spin is not effective if the ball is landing short of the service line.

Actually, as 5263 showed times a many, the ‘‘necessity of depth‘‘ is largely exaggerated. You have to consider angles a well... the point is to be neutralizing.


Look up for what he calls ''smart targets."

basil J 07-31-2013 10:11 AM

I find that if I start a rally and really work at moving the ball corner to corner, nice & deep with good net clearance, I almost always control the point. If i get pulled into trying to outhit my opponent and end up hitting balls up the middle, my opponents will tee off on anything short, even if I am hitting hard. best to get your opponent moving, even if they know where you are going. they still have to move and you can pull errors if you are patient.

newpball 07-31-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrito (Post 7625382)
I find myself getting tired running and being pushed around a lot.

Then develop a better condition, tennis is not golf where you hit one stroke and then go for a relaxing walk (unless even walking is to tiring and you take a cart). :grin:

5263 07-31-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isfreak (Post 7626208)
Actually, as 5263 showed times a many, the ‘‘necessity of depth‘‘ is largely exaggerated. You have to consider angles as well... the point is to be neutralizing.


Look up for what he calls ''smart targets."

thanks 10is, and Imo you stated that quite well. Depth is one aspect and likely a
good one at a point where you can be very consistent.

But, In this day where even
avg players hit with pretty good pace & spin, often a safer moderate depth can
work well if the line of shot is away from the opponent, keeping them on the move.
This shorter length shot, with good spin and pace can really groove you
into an extremely versatile, and measured shot that is useful for passing shots
as well as smart angles to move the opponent around and open the court.

That thread that 10is mentions is "Practice for Smarter Targets"...
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...marter+targets

josofo 07-31-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7625324)
sure, a couple of things, but
why not like a counter punch style?
Imo, every good player is a counter puncher at his base. They rally aggressively
till they get an attack-able ball to really go after, then transition back to baseline
or on in to net to finish.
What else are you going to do? Try to hit winners from the baseline??
Or hit an approach and crash net every point against poly powered baseliners
who love a target to pass?

No, ...counter punch is the Style of Most of the Greats, with some being more
aggressive on the rally than others, but it is still the same. Rally to get a UE or
short ball....then go more offensive on the attack.

How to control a rally?
Either you hit heavy Top spin with some good power and depth or
you really drive the ball strongly to open court with the occasional
hit behind them, or
you mix these two.


really aggressive players off the top of my head. almagro, prime davydenko, when berdych plays his best i feel he goes after virtually every ball, but a lot of times he is willing to get in rally's. also i have watched http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...y-Korolev.aspx play a couple times and he was going after every single ball, hitting the fence a bunch, it was great to see.

VeeSe 07-31-2013 05:22 PM

The answer to this one is extremely simple. Keep it deep, and be able to keep it deep when your opponent hits it deep. First one to break and give up a short ball gets attacked and loses control. If you can't do this to your opponent, then he/she is better than you from the baseline, and you are going to have to come up with something else.

Obviously it's not just that simple, and people have weaker sides, excellent/bad movement, etc but at the most basic level, keeping it deep and playing the high percentage shots is how you maintain control.

sundaypunch 07-31-2013 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isfreak (Post 7626208)
Actually, as 5263 showed times a many, the ‘‘necessity of depth‘‘ is largely exaggerated. You have to consider angles a well... the point is to be neutralizing.


Look up for what he calls ''smart targets."

I am familiar with that thread. There are dozens of things to consider when it comes to controlling a baseline rally. Of course, angles is one just as hitting low slices might be one.

Avoiding the middle 1/3 of the court is a simple and well-known strategy. Problem is, most of the rec. players I see have no depth control. They can hit with good spin but half of their shots land well short of the service line. Without good depth control, good luck hitting a short angle over and over in a rally.

If the OP wants to keep it simple and get the quickest bang for his buck, my recommendation to him would be to concentrate on keeping the ball deep. If he is able to dominate from the baseline hitting short angles, more power to him.

5263 07-31-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundaypunch (Post 7627074)
Problem is, most of the rec. players I see have no depth control.
then....

If the OP wants to keep it simple and get the quickest bang for his buck, my recommendation to him would be to concentrate on keeping the ball deep.

really?
So you want players with NO DEPTH control to focus on keeping it deep?:???:

sundaypunch 07-31-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7627091)
really?
So you want players with NO DEPTH control to focus on keeping it deep?:???:

Yes.

The point is that many have no depth control because they give it little to no thought. Their main thought is to take a big cut at the ball and hit with lots of spin. They end up hitting a ball that lands short of the service line 2/3 of the time and sits up.

Then they wonder why they are getting beat by the "pusher" that loops the ball 10' over the net and lands deep over and over and over.

If the OP was keeping the ball deep in rallies there would be no need for this thread. My advice to him is to concentrate almost solely on keeping the ball deep for some time. Maybe he can do this more consistently with a loopy ball or slice, maybe he will have to hit with less pace than he likes.

5263 07-31-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundaypunch (Post 7627119)
Yes.

The point is that many have no depth control because they give it little to no thought. Their main thought is to take a big cut at the ball and hit with lots of spin. They end up hitting a ball that lands short of the service line 2/3 of the time and sits up.

Then they wonder why they are getting beat by the "pusher" that loops the ball 10' over the net and lands deep over and over and over.

Maybe so, but I don't follow your logic. Hit deep because you have no depth
control. You have no depth control because you give it no thought. You are
taking big cuts that land inside the svc line??
Now that is some major spin to make that happen. Most that can create that
much TS have some skills & have heard time and again to hit deep.

Of course this does not relate to the info given by the OP, as
he states his problems are lots of UEs and hitting back to them;
Which my suggestions of hitting away from them and using
more conservative targets would address if he works on it.
Also, leaving balls that sit up short is not a big problem against a pusher that
loops the ball 10' over the net each shot, since that is not how short balls are
attacked. Don't know how you figure someone with no depth control and too many
UEs is going to compete against a good pusher by going for extra depth & trying
to beat a pusher at his own game, while hitting too many long is one of his
already stated problems
?
Sounds more like the cycle of problems that we see players trapped in every day
at the rec level...mostly due to the myth of how hitting deeper is the holy grail to
solve all rally problems.

sundaypunch 08-01-2013 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeSe (Post 7626983)
The answer to this one is extremely simple. Keep it deep, and be able to keep it deep when your opponent hits it deep. First one to break and give up a short ball gets attacked and loses control. If you can't do this to your opponent, then he/she is better than you from the baseline, and you are going to have to come up with something else.

Obviously it's not just that simple, and people have weaker sides, excellent/bad movement, etc but at the most basic level, keeping it deep and playing the high percentage shots is how you maintain control.

Agree 100%


Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7627187)
Maybe so, but I don't follow your logic. Hit deep because you have no depth
control. You have no depth control because you give it no thought. You are
taking big cuts that land inside the svc line??
Now that is some major spin to make that happen. Most that can create that
much TS have some skills & have heard time and again to hit deep.

Of course this does not relate to the info given by the OP, as
he states his problems are lots of UEs and hitting back to them;
Which my suggestions of hitting away from them and using
more conservative targets would address if he works on it.
Also, leaving balls that sit up short is not a big problem against a pusher that
loops the ball 10' over the net each shot, since that is not how short balls are
attacked. Don't know how you figure someone with no depth control and too many
UEs is going to compete against a good pusher by going for extra depth & trying
to beat a pusher at his own game, while hitting too many long is one of his
already stated problems
?
Sounds more like the cycle of problems that we see players trapped in every day
at the rec level...mostly due to the myth of how hitting deeper is the holy grail to
solve all rally problems.


The OP has many more problems than UE's and hitting back to the other player - he also mentions footwork, stroke quality, and short balls. When comparing racquets, he focuses on hitting aggressive topspin angle shots. Then he mentions that he would like to be "aggressive from the start" and move away from a counterpunching style.

If he thinks that going for angles or being aggressive is going to solve his problem, more power to him. My advice is to simplify things and just focus on keeping the ball deep as a starting point.


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