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-   -   Increasing dwell time (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=474812)

dknotty 08-25-2013 11:58 PM

Increasing dwell time
 
So how does one increase the dwell time of the ball on the strings?

Are there techniques for this?

PhrygianDominant 08-26-2013 12:56 AM

I don't think you can swing differently to increase it. The time the ball is actually on the strings is measured in only a few (4-7?) milliseconds, so there isn't much room either way.

Lowering your tension and playing with a more flexible racquet can increase what a lot of players call pocketing or cradling, but if the ball actually stays longer on the strings by any measurably significant degree is hard to say. The feedback at contact for the player is probably percieved to change quite a bit, but the actual length of contact is probably not.

This is my understanding of it, however others who are more informed than me will probably post.

EDIT: by the way, how are you liking the yonex? what were you playing before? I am playing it at around that tension right now.

dknotty 08-26-2013 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhrygianDominant (Post 7692450)
I don't think you can swing differently to increase it. The time the ball is actually on the strings is measured in only a few (4-7?) milliseconds, so there isn't much room either way.

Lowering your tension and playing with a more flexible racquet can increase what a lot of players call pocketing or cradling, but if the ball actually stays longer on the strings by any measurably significant degree is hard to say. The feedback at contact for the player is probably percieved to change quite a bit, but the actual length of contact is probably not.

This is my understanding of it, however others who are more informed than me will probably post.

EDIT: by the way, how are you liking the yonex? what were you playing before? I am playing it at around that tension right now.

Had a session with a guy yesterday who made some suggestions on my forehand, the upshot being that the ideal stroke is that your shoulder is moving until the racket contacts the ball, then the wrist takes over until the ball leaves the racket then the shoulder comes back into play for the follow through. Very interesting indeed and quite hard to put into practice given the tiny small dwell time.

Loving the yonex! There the most comfortable strings I've played with by a long shot (no pun intended). Durability is pretty good as well! Will be trying the 1.20 next.

How are you finding the strings?

PhrygianDominant 08-26-2013 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknotty (Post 7692485)
Had a session with a guy yesterday who made some suggestions on my forehand, the upshot being that the ideal stroke is that your shoulder is moving until the racket contacts the ball, then the wrist takes over until the ball leaves the racket then the shoulder comes back into play for the follow through. Very interesting indeed and quite hard to put into practice given the tiny small dwell time.

Loving the yonex! There the most comfortable strings I've played with by a long shot (no pun intended). Durability is pretty good as well! Will be trying the 1.20 next.

How are you finding the strings?

I don't have a very good barometer because I just haven't tried that many strings. I previously was using SPPP 1.18, the only poly I have hit with any regularity. I know the gauges aren't really similar, but I volley MUCH better with the yonex. That was always my main complaint with a lot of poly strings, and the yonex has a lot of touch for a poly. I don't think I will even try the thinner gauge when it becomes available, I will just stick with this one.

Pet 08-26-2013 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknotty (Post 7692413)
So how does one increase the dwell time of the ball on the strings?

Are there techniques for this?

Yes, its call ... jumpulse :)

2ndServe 08-26-2013 05:27 AM

I think the key is keeping the racket angle consistent through the hitting zone and follow through.

Topspin Shot 08-26-2013 09:17 AM

In short, no.

newpball 08-26-2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknotty (Post 7692413)
So how does one increase the dwell time of the ball on the strings?

Are there techniques for this?

One cannot change the dwell time by changing technique.

Strings have an influence on dwell time, gut has the longest while poly has the shortest dwell time for balls also tension is a factor, lower tension is longer dwell time.

sureshs 08-26-2013 09:32 AM

Dwell time is in the range 1 - 5 ms and depends on tension and string, and perhaps flex of frame as well.

sureshs 08-26-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newpball (Post 7693337)
One cannot change the dwell time by changing technique.

I have a theory that a more closed face during topspin can increase the dwell time, but I am not sure.

newpball 08-26-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7693371)
Dwell time is in the range 1 - 5 ms and depends on tension and string, and perhaps flex of frame as well.

I thought it was a little bit longer, more like 4-8 ms.

TennisCJC 08-26-2013 10:07 AM

I think any brushing action increases time the ball remains in contact with strings. Best example that you can feel is a low volley. Try hitting a low volley with a square action where you just hit straight through the ball toward the target. Now, try hitting a low volley where you hit downward with an outside to inside pulling across motion. It will feel like the ball stays on the strings longer.

Same thing with groundstrokes. A square flat groundstroke where you hit out toward the target will not have as much string contact time as one where you pull upward and across thru contact.

Difference is small and you may already use the brushing action.

Agree with others, flexible frame, softer strings, or lower tensions also increase dwell time.

jakeytennis 08-26-2013 10:08 AM

with a fast wind shield wiper motion, i feel that the ball stays on the strings longer. when i don't swing fast, i don't feel the ball on the strings as long, and i have less control

SystemicAnomaly 08-26-2013 10:12 AM

^^^ Typical dwell times on the stringbed are 4-5 ms according to Yandell, Cross and others. The dwell time for a ground interaction (a bounce) is typically 3-4 ms according to Rod Cross, I believe. It might be possible to increase stringbed dwell time with a touch/drop volley however, for normal strokes, the dwell time will probably not vary much at all (10% or so) regardless of how fast one swings.

The dwell time can be increased to 7 ms or so by significantly reducing stringbed stiffness (which includes frame stiffness). Reducing string tension is one way to do this.

http://tennis.quickfound.net/trainin...s_science.html
http://www.tennis.com/gear/2012/05/s.../#.Uhsrx2REQWU
.

sureshs 08-26-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newpball (Post 7693404)
I thought it was a little bit longer, more like 4-8 ms.

No, we have discussed that before with TW Prof. There may be some special cases though.

newpball 08-26-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7693717)
No, we have discussed that before with TW Prof. There may be some special cases though.

OK, I thought 1 ms seems awfully short.

boramiNYC 08-26-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknotty (Post 7692485)
Had a session with a guy yesterday who made some suggestions on my forehand, the upshot being that the ideal stroke is that your shoulder is moving until the racket contacts the ball, then the wrist takes over until the ball leaves the racket then the shoulder comes back into play for the follow through. Very interesting indeed and quite hard to put into practice given the tiny small dwell time.

considering many rec players have poor control of the shoulder (either erratic or consistently off the sweet spot of the shoulder range of motion) what that guy said is spot on for many. but shoulder never stops or slow down and accelerate. it's more consistently placing the arm control in the middle of the sweet spot of the shoulder range of motion. first you kinda have to understand how the shoulder moves and where the sweet spot is. and try to place the arm in that spot all the time.

Cheetah 08-26-2013 12:42 PM

dwell time = 4-8ms. not 1ms.


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