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-   -   Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=477332)

tennissportsrog 09-15-2013 04:28 AM

Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?
 
his style of play boring?

Thereís an argument that this generation of menís tennis is boring and I think itís a valid one.

Itís not boring to see two great players like Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic compete in a final.


What is getting mundane is watching the same tactic in every single match of every single grand slam for the last five or six years.


Nowadays they all settle down and say ďOK, this is going to be two hours of baseline rallies.Ē The guy who outlasts the other one wins. Itís taken a lot of the skill out of tennis.


They are not better all-round players than the likes of Boris Becker or Pete Sampras. Boris and Pete were baseline players, they were attacking players and they could do it against baseliners like Mats Wilander or Andre Agassi.


Now that was entertainment. You never knew which way it was going to go.


Nadal and Djokovic are exceptional athletes, thereís no doubt about it, but to say they are better athletes than past greats like Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg is just nonsense.


This is some crap drummed up by somebody and I think itís an insult to past players. Modern players donít dive around the net, they donít deliver backhand smashes, they donít have to twist and turn like past generations.


Could modern players do that? We donít know. What we do know is that they are incredibly good at retrieving shots from the back of the court.


Are they better, quicker, more agile around the net? The answer to that would be no.


What todayís players do around the baseline is undeniably phenomenal. They have become specialists in that, but to say they are better athletes is disrespectful. I donít buy it at all, not for one second.


The ITF and the ATP are doing a great job of marketing the game, but they need to look at what is actually happening on the court.


Is this entertainment? Is this good enough?



Roger Federer is my favorite player to watch, but there is no denying the battles between Nadal and Novak Djokovic have been incredible. This is a rivalry that could run and run.



For more from CNN Open Courtís Pat Cash, visit his official website.

worldsport.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/11/are-rafael-nadal-and-novak-djokovic-boring

Chico 09-15-2013 04:30 AM

Pat Cash is boring.

FedererWinsWimbledon2014 09-15-2013 04:30 AM

It is quite boring, Tsonga, Stan and Federer are exciting players.

tennissportsrog 09-15-2013 04:30 AM

Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?



SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.

------------------

Rozroz 09-15-2013 04:31 AM

now that's my kind if thread!
like fresh air !!!! ahhhh!!!

tennissportsrog 09-15-2013 04:33 AM

ROGER FEDERER. (was the 1st place)
2012


Q. Both McEnroe and Agassi said in the World Team Tennis match this July that tennis right now at the top, menís tennis is the toughest ever. Do you think you four guys are the toughest maybe in history in terms of competing against each other and winning events?



ROGER FEDERER: Iíd say no, but I donít know. Just because you look back maybe 15 years, then you have Sampras, Edberg, Becker, and Agassi, I donít know who else. Those guys werenít good or what? Do you know what I mean?


You look back, further back, 20 years, and you have the Connors and the Lendls. Those werenít good either? I mean, I donít know. So for me I think thatís respectful.


Itís just different times and definitely more athletic, thereís no doubt about that. But then again we donít play doubles. We donít play mixed. Maybe we play less matches today because itís more taxing, but we do play less best‑of‑five set tennis than they used to play. You canít compare really.


but we have somewhat of a golden era right now. I feel that truly. Itís nice to see Andy making his move at the Olympics, nice to see Novak having an absolutely ridiculous year last year, and then Rafa and myself still being around. Itís definitely good times. Past that you still have great champions as well. Itís very interesting at the top right now, and the depth I think has never been greater than right now. Thereís no doubt about that.

But then best ever? The four of us? Thatís a really difficult call.




ttp://richtweets.com/2sloc

tennissportsrog 09-15-2013 04:38 AM

Nadal believes previous tennis eras cannot match the excitement generated by the current stars of the sport.



"Sampras versus Ivanisevic match, or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable, It's not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet.


It was less eye-catching than what we do now. Everyone enjoys the tennis we play much more. I am not saying we are playing better tennis, just more enjoyable tennis. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve."



atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...-Day-Five

easywin 09-15-2013 04:47 AM

I agree with variety missing, i think most people agree with it ...
I guess its the ATP trying to build up new superheroes winning everything on every surface.

But what always bothers me in these discussions is that people that prefer allcourt tennis with more net play, including pat cash as it seems, say :

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennissportsrog (Post 7758598)
The guy who outlasts the other one wins. Itís taken a lot of the skill out of tennis.

That sounds like todays players are one dimensional and not as allround skilled as past players ... okay, i can live with that, but then they say :

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennissportsrog (Post 7758598)
Nadal and Djokovic are exceptional athletes, thereís no doubt about it, but to say they are better athletes than past greats like Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg is just nonsense.

So in the end it comes down to :"modern players are less skilled and equally athletic than past players" which i think is insulting modern players in the same way, but i guess its okay if you turn the sword around instead of trying to find a realistic answer what players now are better/worse at than past players

tennissportsrog 09-15-2013 04:50 AM

Dull is the worst thing to happen in tennis.

But they're only the surface of the problem.

The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

easywin 09-15-2013 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennissportsrog (Post 7758613)
The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

haha :roll: okay i wont come back to this thread :)

Backspin1183 09-15-2013 05:08 AM

Nadal is a very exciting tennis player unlike any other player. That's why people even those that don't follow tennis much like to watch him play.

fatichar 09-15-2013 05:25 AM

Are some of the old players jealous of the consistency of the top 4?

vive le beau jeu ! 09-15-2013 05:34 AM

the nadal is the boringest player ever... he killed tennis.

Rozroz 09-15-2013 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vive le beau jeu ! (Post 7758640)
the nadal is the boringest player ever... he killed tennis.

you gotta understand that people like you and me enjoy tennis in a different way than those who like Nadal's game. although i agree with you.
(it's not Nadal's fault btw- it's the slow courts!!! :p )

6-1 6-3 6-0 09-15-2013 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennissportsrog (Post 7758613)
Dull is the worst thing to happen in tennis.

But they're only the surface of the problem.

The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

Careful, troll. Don't step out of character. The user you're pretending to be is supposed to have far more incoherent English than the kind you've posted here.

Backspin1183 09-15-2013 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7758648)
you gotta understand that people like you and me enjoy tennis in a different way than those who like Nadal's game. although i agree with you.
(it's not Nadal's fault btw- it's the slow courts!!! :p )

LOL the courts are not that slow. Nadal would make 90s courts look slow with his style. He's just a kind not seen before in tennis.

HRB 09-15-2013 06:28 AM

To these points:

"Could modern players do that? We donít know. What we do know is that they are incredibly good at retrieving shots from the back of the court."

"Are they better, quicker, more agile around the net? The answer to that would be no".

The answer is the same I've said elsewhere...."YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT PRESENTS ITSELF TO YOU"

These guys are the fittest and fastest...that is just fact, and any former player who can check there ego will concede that (J-Mac always does, love the honesty). That being said, given the proper training and nutrition these guys grew up with, the likes of Mac, Connors, Borg, etc...would be just as fit if not more.

So what I mean is simply that the current best players are in an era of slow, homogenous, extremely similar surfaces...which causes baseline endurance style play...hell...the ball checks up so high that if you did rush the net, by the time you get there the opponent has plenty of time to calculate a lob or pass.

Bring these guys, in their current state of fitness back in the proverbial time machine and you'll see plenty of twist, spins, and fast reactions at the net..trust me!

This being said, yeah it IS GETTING BORING. If you want more flatter, more aggressive, going for winners type of ball look no further than the top WTA players...it is exciting, risky, and depending on your "orientation" the "scenery" can be a welcomed added bonus!

SLD76 09-15-2013 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennissportsrog (Post 7758603)
Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?



SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.


------------------

Welp, that halfway explains Nadal's utter dominance on his historically worst surface this year.

Praetorian 09-15-2013 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennissportsrog (Post 7758608)
Nadal believes previous tennis eras cannot match the excitement generated by the current stars of the sport.



"Sampras versus Ivanisevic match, or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable, It's not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet.


It was less eye-catching than what we do now. Everyone enjoys the tennis we play much more. I am not saying we are playing better tennis, just more enjoyable tennis. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve."



atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...-Day-Five

Only a select few had serve serve serve serve. Is that how you categorize rios, agassi, courier, chang, etc? Certainly todays game is much more homogenized to baselines rallies, then the serving game ever was in the past. Getting past the server serve serve, their games were more entertaining because they also were more agressive overall. They played to win, not to not lose. Unfortunately, the strategy to not lose is the winning combination nowadays. For me the only points worth watching in the USO final, was when both nadal and novak tried to bash the balls for winners.

Praetorian 09-15-2013 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backspin1183 (Post 7758652)
LOL the courts are not that slow. Nadal would make 90s courts look slow with his style. He's just a kind not seen before in tennis.

Public courts, nope, you are right. Please regale us with your tales of playing on these championship courts through the decades, and prove this board wrong.


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