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-   -   More effective to hit heavy topspin balls deep or short? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=479984)

tennis_hack 10-13-2013 10:42 PM

More effective to hit heavy topspin balls deep or short?
 
Assuming that even if you hit the ball short (i.e. in the service box), because of the topspin, the ball would still kick forward and up so would be head height or above by the time it reaches the baseline - is it better to hit short?

Because, if you hit that same ball deep, you give a good player the option of hitting it on the rise before it gets up too high on their strikezone.

If you hit the ball deep, they do not have the option to take the ball on the rise - because the ball bounced all the way on the service line. Unless they want to half volley balls on the service line (in which case you could slap the next shot deep and past them), they are forced to hit balls above their strikezone on the baseline...?

So is it better to hit heavy topspin short or deep?

Timbo's hopeless slice 10-13-2013 11:36 PM

yet another idiotic thread...

but I voted...

duh, I thought you didn't aim?

cjs 10-13-2013 11:40 PM

Next thread from tennis_hack - "Is it better to hit the ball in or out?"

Gyswandir 10-13-2013 11:52 PM

Both
 
Actually, this is not such an idiotic thread. If I recall correctly, Agassi once described playing against Nadal and cited that he considered it a "new type of tennis" exactly due to the variation in depth with heavy topspin.
I don't remember the exact words, but it was something like he had to step into the court for the shorter balls, then get caught in a bad position with the deeper shots.

So, in my opinion, if I HAD TO choose one, I'd choose deep, but if I could hit at will, I'd use both.

TennisCJC 10-14-2013 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyswandir (Post 7819721)
Actually, this is not such an idiotic thread. If I recall correctly, Agassi once described playing against Nadal and cited that he considered it a "new type of tennis" exactly due to the variation in depth with heavy topspin.
I don't remember the exact words, but it was something like he had to step into the court for the shorter balls, then get caught in a bad position with the deeper shots.

So, in my opinion, if I HAD TO choose one, I'd choose deep, but if I could hit at will, I'd use both.

Deep, deeper, and deepest. Deeper is always better unless you miss long. Only times when deeper is not better are short angles, drop shots, and passing shots.

On fast court like Shanghai, Agassi would have an absolute field day on Nadal's shorter topspin balls. Nadal would be on defense all day or watching the ball go by.

KMV 10-14-2013 07:42 AM

deep for regular shots, short to open up the court and draw the opponent wide

Power Player 10-14-2013 07:58 AM

I love this guy's unhealthy obsession with topspin. Super weird. Hope he is not like this with the ladies.

Graf1stClass 10-14-2013 08:12 AM

well, if you're going for wide angles, shorter balls are more effective, so long as they still have pace.

TimeSpiral 10-14-2013 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf1stClass (Post 7820221)
well, if you're going for wide angles, shorter balls are more effective, so long as they still have pace.

Threads like this are so unfortunate ... not because the OP is a troll (which he either (a) definitely is, or (b) is trying hard to understand tennis and publishing his progress) because a random person might come by and read the OP and take it seriously.

It's really for that reason alone questions like this have to be answered, and errors in the OP must be addressed.
  1. Hitting the ball on the rise is difficult. If you can pin the guy behind the baseline and force him to take the ball early, you're in a great spot. Professional tennis players can and will do anything to gain an advantage, like taking the ball early, or holding on to the ball and playing it late. These guys are masters of tennis. The rec player trying to emulate techniques like that has a lot of training to do.
  2. Generally speaking, hitting a rally ball short is considered "bad news." You'll get people who come in and say, "well in situation (a) and (b) this can be effective ..." Well yeah; obviously. Short angles, drop shots, cc chips to lure your opponent in are all great and technical shots, but the OP is talking about rally balls, not specialty shots.
  3. The OP said something to the effect that topspin shots hit shorter than the service line would "[...] still kick forward and up so would be head height or above by the time it reaches the baseline." NO, DUDE! This does not happen (except in rare circumstances). Not even Nadal is dropping the ball short of the service line and kicking it up to head height on ground strokes.
Topspin rally balls dropped inside the service line are sitting ducks for your opponents to hit approaches, drops, winners, and all sorts of shots that equal trouble for you.

Graf1stClass 10-14-2013 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeSpiral (Post 7820249)
Threads like this are so unfortunate ... not because the OP is a troll (which he either (a) definitely is, or (b) is trying hard to understand tennis and publishing his progress) because a random person might come by and read the OP and take it seriously.

It's really for that reason alone questions like this have to be answered, and errors in the OP must be addressed.
  1. Hitting the ball on the rise is difficult. If you can pin the guy behind the baseline and force him to take the ball early, you're in a great spot. Professional tennis players can and will do anything to gain an advantage, like taking the ball early, or holding on to the ball and playing it late. These guys are masters of tennis. The rec player trying to emulate techniques like that has a lot of training to do.
  2. Generally speaking, hitting a rally ball short is considered "bad news." You'll get people who come in and say, "well in situation (a) and (b) this can be effective ..." Well yeah; obviously. Short angles, drop shots, cc chips to lure your opponent in are all great and technical shots, but the OP is talking about rally balls, not specialty shots.
  3. The OP said something to the effect that topspin shots hit shorter than the service line would "[...] still kick forward and up so would be head height or above by the time it reaches the baseline." NO, DUDE! This does not happen (except in rare circumstances). Not even Nadal is dropping the ball short of the service line and kicking it up to head height on ground strokes.
Topspin rally balls dropped inside the service line are sitting ducks for your opponents to hit approaches, drops, winners, and all sorts of shots that equal trouble for you.

none of this applies to hitting drop shot-like balls that force your opponent to pretty much run across and off the court to hit them, opening 90% of it up, especially if you approach your shot. only beginners would hit such shots completely or even more or less in the opponent's direction.

btw, the word "rally" wasn't at all in the OP. and there's no such thing as a "specialty shot". what I described was another rally shot, especially if the opponent gets to it.

TimeSpiral 10-14-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf1stClass (Post 7820257)
none of this applies to hitting drop shot-like balls that force your opponent to pretty much run across and off the court to hit them, opening 90% of it up, especially if you approach your shot. only beginners would hit such shots completely or even more or less in the opponent's direction.

btw, the word "rally" wasn't at all in the OP. and there's no such thing as a "specialty shot". what I described was another rally shot, especially if the opponent gets to it.

Oh, lol ... *scratches head*

Okay.

Graf1stClass 10-14-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeSpiral (Post 7820286)
Oh, lol ... *scratches head*

Okay.

so, they aren't hit in rallies? they're just exceptions. okay.

at least you conceded all other points.

TimeSpiral 10-14-2013 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf1stClass (Post 7820293)
so, they aren't hit in rallies? they're just exceptions. okay.

at least you conceded all other points.


Graf1stClass 10-14-2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeSpiral (Post 7820312)




Concession accepted.

TimeSpiral 10-14-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf1stClass (Post 7820326)

Concession accepted.


Graf1stClass 10-14-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeSpiral (Post 7820339)

Concession accepted.

...now get the NTRP rating up, kid, before you impart more ignorance.

TimeSpiral 10-14-2013 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf1stClass (Post 7820342)
Concession accepted.

...now get the NTRP rating up, kid, before you impart more ignorance.


Graf1stClass 10-14-2013 09:38 AM

Lol...you 4.0s are so funny.

TimeSpiral 10-14-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf1stClass (Post 7820363)
Lol...you 4.0s are so funny.


Topspin Shot 10-14-2013 10:18 AM



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