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-   -   Stepping forward, then splittng on return of serve (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=483227)

Torres 11-17-2013 11:54 AM

Stepping forward, then splittng on return of serve
 
Just curious as to who else does this.

Poll is anonymous but feel free to chip on with your views as to whether you think its advantageous or unnecessary etc.

SystemicAnomaly 11-17-2013 12:10 PM

I will take my step forward with the server's ball toss and then split step at/near the contact. The rhythm of the STEP-SPLIT will vary from one serve to the next. It is not difficult to establish this rhythm for most servers. Murray and Agassi, 2 of the best returners of all time, would take a step forward prior to the split step. Here is an interesting variation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYepk8QCfwA

Torres 11-17-2013 12:30 PM

Interesting. A coach actually asked me this evening why I did this - I actually take a step forward with my left foot and then split step.

Fed doesn't really seem to do it as much - more of a very short hop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-HOGspAApw

Ash_Smith 11-17-2013 12:38 PM

Step onto dominant leg and then split for me and this is what I teach (or used to when I coached non-disabled athletes)

Ballinbob 11-17-2013 01:02 PM

Going from memory, I don't think Djokovic does this. I like his way of returning a lot, it's more simple.

Does the step forward actually help you in any way? I don't see how it would?

Lukhas 11-17-2013 01:08 PM

I voted for the first option. However, I do not do this in order to return inside the baseline, just to have forward momentum.

mightyrick 11-17-2013 01:43 PM

I step forward at least two half-steps and then "sort-of" split step. The only reason I do it is to keep my momentum moving forward and to help me not to get jammed up.

Torres 11-17-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballinbob (Post 7906401)
Does the step forward actually help you in any way? I don't see how it would?

I do it because it puts me in a different position to where the server thinks I'm going to be. Also moving forward, gives me a positive mindset on the return.

forthegame 11-17-2013 02:44 PM

I've started doing that since watching Murray on return. I noticed that Djokovic does that too but Murray's stood out for me.

I guess I should say that I try to...

forthegame 11-17-2013 02:45 PM

BTW, I've always had trouble with my split step on ground strokes. I have this habit of split stepping backwards...

Topic for another thread perhaps.

BlueB 11-17-2013 05:24 PM

I do both.

SystemicAnomaly 11-17-2013 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballinbob (Post 7906401)
Going from memory, I don't think Djokovic does this. I like his way of returning a lot, it's more simple.

Does the step forward actually help you in any way? I don't see how it would?

But then Novak's return stance is insanely wide. Most of us, even in our teens/20s, were never this flexible. The STEP & SPLIT employed by Agassi and Murray are much easier for most players to perform/master. Check out the video link from Jeff Salzenstein on the Agassi implementation.

Yes, the step forward does help. I already mentioned one way that it helps in post #2 above. It is a timing step that syncs you up top the rhythm of the server. I also gets your moving forward, in to the court, when you perform you split step. This is much better than falling backward after/when you split. Will Hamilton of FYB advocate the preliminary forward step and indicates why it is important.

http://blip.tv/fuzzy-yellow-balls/te...-split-1155197
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/return-of-serve/step-up-and-split

spaceman_spiff 11-18-2013 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueB (Post 7906855)
I do both.

Same here.

Most of the time, I start in my preferred position and just do a split-step while leaning forward a bit. But, if my opponent is really trying to jam me a lot, then I'll start from a couple of steps back and move forward during the toss. That usually makes it more difficult to target the body.

MauricioDias 11-18-2013 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff (Post 7907302)
Same here.

Most of the time, I start in my preferred position and just do a split-step while leaning forward a bit. But, if my opponent is really trying to jam me a lot, then I'll start from a couple of steps back and move forward during the toss. That usually makes it more difficult to target the body.

+1

I adapt my strategy in order to better return my opponent serve

Tonyr1967 11-18-2013 07:16 AM

I've always returned serve like this.

One of the strengths of my game - you need to be able to react quickly but it cuts the serve angle and allows you to get the ball back very quickly.

I always found it hard to switch grips quickly though, so have both hands in an eastern forehand grip (have a 2hbh) and tend to hit very flat returns. Not much swing is required as your body weight and the serve pace gives the return it's speed. If I'm playing well my returns are deep and fast; if I'm playing really well I hit a good few return winners.

If he server has a good pace on his second serve I will use the same strategy. If not, I normally use the same footwork but less aggressively, so I can take a bigger cut at the ball and try to dictate the point.

Murray's footwork is the same although he changes the lead foot depending on the side he is returning to. Don't recall Agassi using a noticeable step forward at the start of the return? Anyone have some footage?

TimeSpiral 11-18-2013 07:23 AM

This depends on the server, and on tactics, for me.

I will use the step forward on slower serves. I use a more stationary split for high-paced serves. Sometimes I'm covering, or baiting a specific serve, in which case I might even move sideways then split.

Ballinbob 11-18-2013 07:36 AM

Stepping forward, then splittng on return of serve
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 7907196)
But then Novak's return stance is insanely wide. Most of us, even in our teens/20s, were never this flexible. The STEP & SPLIT employed by Agassi and Murray are much easier for most players to perform/master. Check out the video link from Jeff Salzenstein on the Agassi implementation.

Yes, the step forward does help. I already mentioned one way that it helps in post #2 above. It is a timing step that syncs you up top the rhythm of the server. I also gets your moving forward, in to the court, when you perform you split step. This is much better than falling backward after/when you split. Will Hamilton of FYB advocate the preliminary forward step and indicates why it is important.

I guess I can understand how it gets you into the court more, but I still don't agree that it really helps timing. If you time your split step right before contact without moving forward, that still allows you to time the serve well. The best way to time the serve return is to consistently split step before contact. I think the step forward allows for more to go wrong when returning. What if you step too far or don't step far enough for instance?

This is all my opinion of course, the step-forward obviously works for many people

TimeSpiral 11-18-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballinbob (Post 7907667)
I guess I can understand how it gets you into the court more, but I still don't agree that it really helps timing. If you time your split step right before contact without moving forward, that still allows you to time the serve well. The best way to time the serve return is to consistently split step before contact. I think the step forward allows for more to go wrong when returning. What if you step too far or don't step far enough for instance?

This is all my opinion of course, the step-forward obviously works for many people

Split step before contact? Can you elaborate?

Topspin Shot 11-18-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballinbob (Post 7907667)
I guess I can understand how it gets you into the court more, but I still don't agree that it really helps timing. If you time your split step right before contact without moving forward, that still allows you to time the serve well. The best way to time the serve return is to consistently split step before contact. I think the step forward allows for more to go wrong when returning. What if you step too far or don't step far enough for instance?

This is all my opinion of course, the step-forward obviously works for many people

It doesn't really matter how far you take that first step before the split. What matters is initiating the jump when the server accelerates his racket from trophy, so you are at the top of the hop when he contacts the ball. Sometimes, taking the first step can help timing because you take that step as the server moves his tossing arm upward to toss the ball. It's not strictly necessary, but it puts you in motion, so you're less likely to be flatfooted when initiating the jump, and it helps you time the server's motion a little better.

Ballinbob 11-18-2013 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeSpiral (Post 7907807)
Split step before contact? Can you elaborate?

Yes, as I was taught, the receiver initiates a split step slightly before the server makes contact with the ball.

Do you agree with this?


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