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-   -   crosses... 2 clamps or 1 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=484737)

DustinW 12-06-2013 11:14 AM

crosses... 2 clamps or 1
 
This is a total newbie question even though I've strung hundreds of rackets. Ok, so I've had an old Klippermate forever and that's what I learned to string on. I always strung the crosses with one clamp (tension string, release clamp while tensioned, and move clamp to current string).

My Klippermate from 1992 (yeah seriously) finally gave up, so I just recently bought a Gamma Progression II 602 FC. I don't know why I waited so long to upgrade, but that's beside the point. Even with the fixed clamps, I still kept using my one clamp on the crosses method... and it seems to work just fine.

Then one day I'm watching stringing videos on youtube, and I see somebody stringing crosses with two clamps (one clamp on at all times, and alternating moving clamps as you tension the cross strings).

So now I'm wondering what pros and cons are of each method. I can see how somebody might say that you could lose tension using the 1-clamp method. But on the flip side, it seems to me the 1-clamp method would give you a more evenly-tensioned stringbed since the tension in crosses gets evened out each time you pull a cross.

Using the 1-clamp method, I like to straighten the last few crosses each time while the string is under tension (after releasing the clamp). I strung up a racket last night using the 2-clamp method, and I noticed that I couldn't do this anymore and I had to wait until I was done before straightening out the crosses.

So what say you stringing experts?

Irvin 12-06-2013 12:02 PM

X-spert? Isn't that a has been drip under pressure? Two clamps is better. Let's experiment with your drop weight if you still have the flying clamps (or you could use you new fixed clamps.) String with two clamps and when you move a clamp what happens to the weight arm? It stays level. Now do it with one clamp. When you move the clamp the weight arm drops. Which one do you think produces the most consistent tension?

If you want to straighten the strings as you go (and that's a great idea) straighten the previous string and not the one being tensioned. The one you're move the clamp from using a two clamp method.

struggle 12-06-2013 12:14 PM

well, first off.....when you say "one clamp" (fixed) I assume you are using both but just one at a time??
one clamp alone will not reach both sides of the frame.

Next, you should have no problem straightening as you go, using 2 clamps (mainly try to remove the "frowning", then do a final straighten once racket is finished). I try to straighten the string as i tension as well, so it's as close to it's "final position" as possible as I reach tension (I'm on a lockout machine however).

Also, using two clamps in the event of a mistake, mis-weave etc is helpful at times.

DustinW 12-06-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7938371)
String with two clamps and when you move a clamp what happens to the weight arm? It stays level. Now do it with one clamp. When you move the clamp the weight arm drops. Which one do you think produces the most consistent tension?

Right, but I assume what causes that arm drop is the string not getting fully tensioned in the turn. If you use the 2-clamp method, that tension loss stays in there and multiplies as you go. If I use the 1-clamp method, I can readjust the arm after it drops a bit... which makes me feel like I'm making up for that bit of tension loss.

Either way, I can't imagine there is a significant difference. Thanks for the reply.

DustinW 12-06-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbuggle (Post 7938387)
well, first off.....when you say "one clamp" (fixed) I assume you are using both but just one at a time??
one clamp alone will not reach both sides of the frame.

Correct... I'm using both fixed clamps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbuggle (Post 7938387)
Next, you should have no problem straightening as you go, using 2 clamps (mainly try to remove the "frowning", then do a final straighten once racket is finished). I try to straighten the string as i tension as well, so it's as close to it's "final position" as possible as I reach tension (I'm on a lockout machine however).

Frowning seemed more prominent and more difficult to correct using the 2-clamp method.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbuggle (Post 7938387)
Also, using two clamps in the event of a mistake, mis-weave etc is helpful at times.

Good point about the 2-clamp method being helpful to fix mistakes.

struggle 12-06-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinW (Post 7938398)
Correct... I'm using both fixed clamps.



Frowning seemed more prominent and more difficult to correct using the 2-clamp method.



Good point about the 2-clamp method being helpful to fix mistakes.

Sometimes the clamp bases will want to turn just abit as they are locked. You'll figure that out too and be able to keep them lined up better as you use them.

Irvin 12-06-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinW (Post 7938391)
Right, but I assume what causes that arm drop is the string not getting fully tensioned in the turn. If you use the 2-clamp method, that tension loss stays in there and multiplies as you go...

Think about that for just a minute. When using two clamps you pull tension and move the farthest clamp and the arm does fall. The section in the turn is still there why doesn't it fall?

On the other hand string starts losing tension as soon as you remove the tensioner. So you pull tension on cross string one and clamp it. Tension starts dropping. You pull tension on cross string two and clamp it while there has been a bigger drop in cross string one because the tensioner was removed for a longer time. You pull tension on cross string three and let's say you just move the clamp on cross string one to cross string three. The arm does not fall because the clamp on cross string two isolates the tension loss in the other strings.

Now let's assume you tension cross string four and release both clamps - down the arm goes because there is no isolation clamp and the tension drop in previous strings is compensated for.

Using two clamps at all times allows for a more uniform tension especially if you ever get interrupted in your process.

Irvin 12-06-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbuggle (Post 7938410)
Sometimes the clamp bases will want to turn just abit as they are locked. You'll figure that out too and be able to keep them lined up better as you use them.

Yes they do so if you straighten a previous string (like the one you're moving the clamp from. There isn't a chance the string will be distorted again and you don't have to go back and do final adjustments on the crosses again. But you do have the adjust the mains.

DustinW 12-06-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 7938416)
Think about that for just a minute. When using two clamps you pull tension and move the farthest clamp and the arm does fall. The section in the turn is still there why doesn't it fall?

On the other hand string starts losing tension as soon as you remove the tensioner. So you pull tension on cross string one and clamp it. Tension starts dropping. You pull tension on cross string two and clamp it while there has been a bigger drop in cross string one because the tensioner was removed for a longer time. You pull tension on cross string three and let's say you just move the clamp on cross string one to cross string three. The arm does not fall because the clamp on cross string two isolates the tension loss in the other strings.

Now let's assume you tension cross string four and release both clamps - down the arm goes because there is no isolation clamp and the tension drop in previous strings is compensated for.

Using two clamps at all times allows for a more uniform tension especially if you ever get interrupted in your process.

Ok, you convinced me. :)

struggle 12-06-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinW (Post 7938460)
Ok, you convinced me. :)

it also kinda cuts out an extra step as when you unclamp, you reclamp that same clamp in one motion on the next (x2) cross, so to speak. less = more.

fuzz nation 12-07-2013 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinW (Post 7938391)
Right, but I assume what causes that arm drop is the string not getting fully tensioned in the turn. If you use the 2-clamp method, that tension loss stays in there and multiplies as you go. If I use the 1-clamp method, I can readjust the arm after it drops a bit... which makes me feel like I'm making up for that bit of tension loss.

Either way, I can't imagine there is a significant difference. Thanks for the reply.

I was using a LaserFibre drop weight machine with floating clamps - this is essentially a table-top Stringway constant pull. Although it's called a 4-point mounting system, it really only grabs the hoop at noon and 6 o'clock. It worked fine for me for several years producing a consistent string job, but a plastic piece in the mounting system broke (UGHHHH!!!) and I decided to upgrade.

I took the plunge and got a Gamma Progression II Els, which also has fixed clamps, and I've gotten used to using both clamps for holding the crosses on this machine. I only used one floating clamp at a time when I'd do the crosses on my drop weight rig and the difference I've found with the two-clamp method has been substantial.

Aside from the strong 'n sturdy mounting system in the new Gamma, this method with the fixed clamps is probably producing a string bed that's the equivalent of stringing at around 4-5 lbs. tighter with the old drop weight. I'm getting the firmness in my own strings that I like when I string them at 58 lbs. now, but my old machine produced that same firmness when I'd string with it set at approximately 62 or 63 lbs.

I've kept a record of all the stringing I've done for friends, students, etc. over the years, but that was with my old machine. Now that I've got this new setup and clamping method, I'm starting an entirely new set of records. I realized that I had to do this when I did a poly hybrid for a college slugger I've coached. I used the new machine, but tensioned the strings with my old numbers. It pretty much produced a rock hard plank for her that was cleverly disguised as a tennis racquet. Lesson learned... BIG difference.

Irvin 12-07-2013 09:14 AM

Sorry meant to cancel post

Bud 12-07-2013 12:07 PM

Either. Sometimes I use one, sometimes two. The second is insurance in case the first slips.

camohommed 12-07-2013 03:16 PM

I've used both one and two clamps and can definitely say I will utilize the two clamp method on all future jobs.

I agree with the person who pointed out this method's usefulness in cases of mistakes


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