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-   -   2HBH: should the racket stay on the "outside" too? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=485806)

dominikk1985 12-20-2013 02:31 PM

2HBH: should the racket stay on the "outside" too?
 
With the "ATP" FH the racket and arm will stay "outside" i.e. on the chest side of the fence and the racket outside of the hand at the end of the backswing before the arm starts forward.

how about the 2HBH? should the racket stay pointed to the outside too at the end of the backswing or being wrapped around the body?

Topspin Shot 12-20-2013 02:55 PM

I would recommend keeping it on the outside of your body. It would actually be pretty tough to wrap it around much because your right hand would prevent that from happening. Still, you want to keep the loop from coming around behind you.

Greg G 12-20-2013 04:18 PM

Macci's take on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixNfXAEJT8

Tight Lines 12-20-2013 06:01 PM

Actually, that is grip dependent.

If you have a semi western top hand, the swingline should be more inside out than outside in. In that case, you want the racket to go around to the other side.

Harry

Maximagq 12-20-2013 06:50 PM

What grip does Djokovic use on his top hand? Eastern forehand or semi-western?

TennisCJC 12-21-2013 07:02 AM

Macci video is good and here's tennis oxygen pro 2hbh comparison that i like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PvSJP7CRZM

I think when you say "outside .. chest side", you mean do the hands stay in front of the chest even thought the chest is to the side. I think keeping the hands in front of the chest/shoulder line (of course shoulders are facing side fence) if the preferred method. It keeps the stroke compact and still gives plenty of power and control.

As you start the forward swing, the wrist/forearms drop into the slot or hitting position. You will see the racket head drop a behind the hands a bit at this point. This was the flipping motion Macci demostrated. Some pros put the wrist in this laid back position at the prep phase which is OK too and some pros keep the wrist neutral in the prep phase. If laid back wrist in prep, the drop/flip into the slot is reduced while neutral at prep have a bigger drop/flip into the slot. Personally, I prefer a bit of lay back in my wrist in the prep phase but you'll see both.

Djoko lays the wrist back very early in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed3S-X1Xiv4. His racket head actually goes back behind the shoulder plane a bit due to the wrist lay back but his hands are still at or in front of the shoulder line.

Lukhas 12-21-2013 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximagq (Post 7962522)
What grip does Djokovic use on his top hand? Eastern forehand or semi-western?

You... traitor to the cause of the glorious one-handed backhand master race! :evil:

This is what Google says when typing "Djokovic Backhand Grip".
http://www.essentialtennisinstructio...kobackhand.png
http://www.optimumtennis.net/images/...-backswing.jpg
http://resources1.news.com.au/images...k-djokovic.jpg
Looks like SW.

stingyoyo 12-21-2013 11:14 AM

I dont know Mr macci's but what he is teaching is wrong!!! Try and keep your elbows close to the body because at contact you want to have your body behind the shot and like he is showing that the racket and arms are far away to the side. Back to the first question , it is not like the forhand of the mens on the atp. You should let the racket drop a little behind your back leg and then get into the hiting slot. That is the way all top backhands are hit atp wta. I usually dont coment here but thats a big big mistake. and as you see my english is not perfect but as a tennis pro i work with many top juniors and pros and got to work with many other top coaches in my carear. So get it right and good luck

julian 12-21-2013 12:45 PM

Another related thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stingyoyo (Post 7963534)
I dont know Mr macci's but what he is teaching is wrong!!! Try and keep your elbows close to the body because at contact you want to have your body behind the shot and like he is showing that the racket and arms are far away to the side. Back to the first question , it is not like the forhand of the mens on the atp. You should let the racket drop a little behind your back leg and then get into the hiting slot. That is the way all top backhands are hit atp wta. I usually dont coment here but thats a big big mistake. and as you see my english is not perfect but as a tennis pro i work with many top juniors and pros and got to work with many other top coaches in my carear. So get it right and good luck

Greetings,
you are welcome to visit another thread about double handed backhand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=485248
Julian W.Mielniczuk
USPTA
Bedford,MA

bhupaes 12-21-2013 10:47 PM

Although I consider the 2hbh to be like the forehand, it differs in some respects.

First of all, for a righty, the right hand restricts how far back the left hand will go, and prevents the left arm and shoulder from being loaded as in a forehand. Thus it is imperative that the right shoulder stretch to the maximum extent in the backswing as part of loading. It should feel tight just before the forward swing starts.

Secondly, the wrist of the left arm must extend, and that of the right hand must flex accordingly, so that the butt of the racquet points to the ball when the forward swing is initiated. The forward swing is like a left handed forehand in that the racquet is pulled into the ball from the inside to the outside as the ball is hit up and across.

IMO, these are the two most important fundamentals of the 2hbh. Of course, there is footwork that goes with it... this has been discussed recently and I agree with the main points. Whether the racquet stays wholly on the hitting side or not is not relevant, IMO.

Topspin Shot 12-22-2013 08:49 AM

I hope Macci doesn't teach his students to flip their elbows like that.

bhupaes 12-22-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspin Shot (Post 7964853)
I hope Macci doesn't teach his students to flip their elbows like that.

I agree... the "flip" should happen as a side effect, and is not something to focus on primarily, IMO - but who am I to argue with Macci's success! :)

julian 12-22-2013 11:29 AM

Do you care to elaborate?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspin Shot (Post 7964853)
I hope Macci doesn't teach his students to flip their elbows like that.

Do you care to elaborate?

dominikk1985 12-22-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julian (Post 7965189)
Do you care to elaborate?

probably that move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixNfXAEJT8#t=0m09

Topspin Shot 12-22-2013 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julian (Post 7965189)
Do you care to elaborate?

Sure. I agree with him that there should be a racket "flip," if that's what he likes to call it, but when he demonstrates, he flips not only his wrists but his elbows. That's about one of the worst things you can do with a two hander if you hope to hit a clean ball.

julian 12-22-2013 02:30 PM

I am NOT sure whether you are correct
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspin Shot (Post 7965525)
Sure. I agree with him that there should be a racket "flip," if that's what he likes to call it, but when he demonstrates, he flips not only his wrists but his elbows. That's about one of the worst things you can do with a two hander if you hope to hit a clean ball.

I am NOT sure whether you are correct in interpretation of the tape/video.
Please note that the quality of the tape/voice is bad.
I coach the way Djokovic does it and I do NOT see the problem you mentioned.

Topspin Shot 12-22-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julian (Post 7965545)
I am NOT sure whether you are correct in interpretation of the tape/video.
Please note that the quality of the tape/voice is bad.
I coach the way Djokovic does it and I do NOT see the problem you mentioned.

Macci was definitely demonstrating a flip of the elbows. Whether he was simply exaggerating for the purpose of his audience is another question; all I was saying is that I hope he doesn't teach it that way. BTW, Djokovic has a very good backhand and is a good teaching model.

julian 12-22-2013 03:50 PM

Related post
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspin Shot (Post 7965556)
Macci was definitely demonstrating a flip of the elbows. Whether he was simply exaggerating for the purpose of his audience is another question; all I was saying is that I hope he doesn't teach it that way. BTW, Djokovic has a very good backhand and is a good teaching model.

please see
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=485248&page=2
post #33

Topspin Shot 12-22-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julian (Post 7965644)

What about post #33?

rkelley 12-22-2013 04:14 PM

I didn't spend a ton of time with it, but that Macci 2hbh video seems to be emphasizing the wrong things. That elbow flip thing I don't get.

Djokovic's bh looks great. Do that.


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