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-   -   PRP/ Prolotherapy/ Stem Cell Experiences (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=486124)

boosted180 12-25-2013 09:06 AM

PRP/ Prolotherapy/ Stem Cell Experiences
 
After a lot of frustration over an old ankle injury that doesn't seem to heal completely, I decided to do PRP (platelet rich plasma) therapy, and wanted to see what everyone else's experiences have been - whether good or bad or neutral. So if you've done PRP, Stem cell, or Prolotherapy, please report on what it was for and what your experiences were.

I was very skeptical, but was desperate and after a lot of research and consultations at 2 different clinics, I decided to give it a try. I thought, even if it doesn't work, it doesn't seem like there's any bad side-effects with these therapies (except wasting a lot of money for nothing if it doesn't work).

It's been 36 hours since I got my injection and the pain was a lot more than I expected the first 24 hours. I could hardly even walk on it. Now it's about 50% better. I was told that this was normal for the first few days. I will report again in about a week.

What's everyone else's experiences been?

drak 12-25-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boosted180 (Post 7969719)
After a lot of frustration over an old ankle injury that doesn't seem to heal completely, I decided to do PRP (platelet rich plasma) therapy, and wanted to see what everyone else's experiences have been - whether good or bad or neutral. So if you've done PRP, Stem cell, or Prolotherapy, please report on what it was for and what your experiences were.

I was very skeptical, but was desperate and after a lot of research and consultations at 2 different clinics, I decided to give it a try. I thought, even if it doesn't work, it doesn't seem like there's any bad side-effects with these therapies (except wasting a lot of money for nothing if it doesn't work).

It's been 36 hours since I got my injection and the pain was a lot more than I expected the first 24 hours. I could hardly even walk on it. Now it's about 50% better. I was told that this was normal for the first few days. I will report again in about a week.

What's everyone else's experiences been?

there are some threads here with some info, just use the search function with my name "Drak" and you can find my experiences.
I don't know if your doc's suggested it but I would suggest a second PRP shot in another 3-5 weeks. I had both Achilles done and the one I had two shots on has done way better than the one with one.

Drak

boosted180 12-26-2013 05:25 AM

Yes, I did read some of your posts in other threads. Seems like the most common threads for PRP are about tennis elbow.

I just thought it might be useful to have a "survey" type of thread where people can see other's results with PRP for different conditions.

PRP certainly is not a cure-all for every type of pain/ injury, so I thought it would be helpful for those who are thinking about it to see what others with their conditions have experienced with it.

For me, it was one bad sprain 6 months ago that never quite healed completely. My ankle since then just felt very vulnerable and even with physical therapy, never felt 100% and I've re-sprained a couple of times. This last time felt really bad and even after 4 weeks off of it, it didn't feel like it was getting better.

Waking up today, my pain is 95% gone! I'm so glad b/c for the past 2 days, I almost couldn't even walk. This of course doesn't mean that PRP has "worked". I still need to wait and have it strong enough to play without pain - which is the goal of me doing this in the first place.

boosted180 12-27-2013 02:54 PM

This is probably one of the best articles on PRP I've seen.

http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/sep10/clinical1.asp

According to this AAOS discussion, PRP is not so good for acute injuries such as sprains, like what I have...

Posture Guy 12-28-2013 07:11 AM

I had PRP with stem cells injected into my right knee about 5 weeks ago. Took it VERY easy for a week, nothing but normal activity and some gentle time on a recumbent stationery bike.

After a week, started doing some light strength work, like some kettlebell swings, leg presses, etc..., not pushing too hard. During that time started back on the tennis court just hitting with my ball machine, no running around, just very light hitting to keep my strokes grooved.

After 3 weeks I started playing again (which was fine with my doc). The knee feels pretty good, and supposedly I'm on the front end of the healing progression, that it's only now that the stem cells are really starting to do their thing. We're looking at getting another injection done sometime in the next month, not sure if it would include stem cells also or just be PRP.

Good luck, hope you find it of help!

One suggestion: get the book Pain Free by Pete Egoscue and do the exercises for foot and ankle pain. One of the biggest things we see limit the results people get with these kinds of procedures is the injected body part is fundamentally out of position and is getting beat up under load. Kind of like your car is out of alignment and you chew up the tires, so you buy new tires without fixing the alignment.

In fact, a company called Regenexx has found that their patient outcomes are SO markedly improved if they do Egoscue along with their injections that they've just named us an officially recommended provider for their patients and strongly recommend to each of them to start Egoscue prior to their first injection.

If I were someone looking at this kind of therapy to regenerate a damaged joint, before plunking down the money for the injection I would ensure the joint was in a reasonably sound position and functioning properly. You don't want compromised position and function to immediately work against the expensive stuff you just put into the joint.

Raul_SJ 12-28-2013 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boosted180 (Post 7969719)
It's been 36 hours since I got my injection and the pain was a lot more than I expected the first 24 hours. I could hardly even walk on it. Now it's about 50% better. I was told that this was normal for the first few days. I will report again in about a week.

Why is there so much initial pain after these PRP injections?

Are the PRP injections needles much larger than normal? Or is it some bodily reaction to what's being injected? But since it's your own blood I would think that might not be an issue...

Posture Guy 12-28-2013 08:01 AM

Yeah, my knee hurt REALLY badly for about 18 hours after the injection. Had trouble sleeping that night, and I have a pretty high pain tolerance. Then it cooled off pretty quickly.

I think there are a few things going on. First, a lot of fluid is being put into the joint space, which probably impinges on nerve fibers. Ever tweaked a joint and had it swell up with fluid? How did that feel? Probably not great. And then I think what is injected likely causes an inflammatory response as well to spur the healing process.

Just my guess. I'm going to be asking my doc about it the next time I see him, will share what he says.

Talker 12-28-2013 06:32 PM

The inflammatory process is increased by the prp treatment.

Things like curcumin, fish oil, NSAIDS and many other drugs/supplements have the opposite effect in that they reduce inflammation.


I would think that anything like the above that works against inflammation should be avoided for maybe a week or so before treatment.

Anyone have information on this?
Maybe a link or some information given before treatment?

Greg G 12-28-2013 07:47 PM

I didn't feel any of this initial pain in the first few days after PRP. Probably because mine was at the elbow, and there's more space for the fluid to dissipate, compared to the intraarticular space of a joint. I did avoid any antiinflammatory medications for a few days before the PRP, and have not taken any at all after, to allow the process to work fully.

RobFL 12-29-2013 06:22 AM

Had a PRP for GE about 3 years ago and it worked after all other therapies did not. 95% of the time i can get rid of TE or GE with traditional therapies, but that one did not respond for several months, PRP worked. I've done a lot of reading on it, i believe in the science, it seems best for micro-tear injuries where blood flow is not ideal. Also if you're getting past 40, micro-tear injuries don't seem to heal as fast.

I have an appointment Monday at Andrews Institute for a torn plantar fascia, going to consider PRP for that. I read PRP was part of Pau Gasol's therapy for his torn PF, he got back on the court in 6 weeks. I'll settle for 12 weeks. Tiger had one on his knee a few years back. They are very prevalent with pro athletes because the non-insurance coverage/out of pocket cost is no factor to them.

boosted180 01-02-2014 06:42 AM

The level of pain I had initially after the injection was "not usual, but not a problem. In fact it's good b/c it means that your body has a very good inflammatory response and it should heal very quickly.", according to the doctor.

It's now been a little over a week since the injection and I could walk normally, zero pain unless the foot is in certain positions which aggravate the tendon on the medial side of the foot, which is what was injured originally.

So what do I think about PRP for my situation? Still not sure yet... I'm going to give it about another week or two and see how I feel. But after reading some of the actual published papers on PRP, I'm not as "optimistic" as I once was just hearing it from the doctors. All the places that do PRP make it sound like a miracle for every kind of pain in any kind of joint, without regard to it's cause, duration, specific reason for the pain.

The guy I went to didn't seem to care that much about figuring out exactly what was causing the pain or suggest imaging or do a more careful evaluation first before just recommending an injection into the parts of the ankle that caused pain. So I was a bit unsatisfied in that regard. But ultimately, in a week or two if I'm completely back to normal (pre-injury), it means that the PRP was beneficial and I'll be happy with that.

BTW, in a news story just a few days ago, Nadal announced that he just started a "new type of treatment" for his knee. I'm pretty sure that it's PRP and/ or stem-cell therapy.

Posture Guy 01-02-2014 09:19 AM

Nadal actually had a session with one of our therapists a few years back. I checked out his posture photos and talked to the therapist who did the assessment. By all accounts, just a great guy, super nice, no diva in him, but a postural wreck. Sad, because those issues are fixable and they are both limiting his performance and causing joint degeneration.

He can get PRP and stem cell therapy, but the position his knees are in are going to significantly reduce the benefit of any such therapy he undergoes.

Posture Guy 01-02-2014 09:35 AM

I should add, in the last week I had a couple of incidents on the court that freaked me out a bit with respect to my knee. A week ago, I was playing on a worn hardcourt and I slipped awkwardly and tumbled down, wrenching my knee in the process. Not badly, but I'm thinking "great, I just blew away all the benefits of a $1200 injection." But the knee was fine afterwards, no swelling or pain.

Then yesterday, I was running to my right for a shot and stepped on a leaf that had blown onto the court. My foot slide on it, then when it 'caught' traction on the court again, I rolled the ankle pretty badly under full weight, and the knee twisted again. Kind of a freak thing. I could keep playing, ankle was a little sore but ok. Knee got a bit sore, but not badly, no swelling.

I don't think it would've held up this well prior to the injection. I think it has had a positive effect.

Overdrive 01-02-2014 09:50 AM

Wow, that must have hurt.

I suggest getting some decent ankle braces.. Oh wait, it's ironic for me suggesting remedies for a user who knows his stuff on health/fitness.. :lol:

Anyways, get well soon!

Posture Guy 01-02-2014 10:13 AM

lol. Ankle brace wouldn't have helped in the first incident, just a smooth patch of court and the foot just slid. Ankle didn't roll, I just did a version of the splits and down I went.

With the second incident, fortunately the ankle was fine. It could've been pretty bad. My ankles are pretty robust, have never had issues with them, thank goodness.

Raul_SJ 01-03-2014 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boosted180 (Post 7969719)
After a lot of frustration over an old ankle injury that doesn't seem to heal completely, I decided to do PRP (platelet rich plasma) therapy, and wanted to see what everyone else's experiences have been - whether good or bad or neutral. So if you've done PRP, Stem cell, or Prolotherapy, please report on what it was for and what your experiences were.

Did you consider PRP with Stem Cells instead of PRP alone?

rk_sports 01-03-2014 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Posture Guy (Post 7984902)
Nadal actually had a session with one of our therapists a few years back. I checked out his posture photos and talked to the therapist who did the assessment. By all accounts, just a great guy, super nice, no diva in him, but a postural wreck. Sad, because those issues are fixable and they are both limiting his performance and causing joint degeneration.

He can get PRP and stem cell therapy, but the position his knees are in are going to significantly reduce the benefit of any such therapy he undergoes.

On a related note, just read this interesting news (maybe old news for some of you)...that among those who tried PRP are Tiger Woods and James Blake
http://gototennis.com/2010/09/25/raf...n-prp-therapy/

Raul_SJ 01-07-2014 01:22 PM

I am considering PRP with Stem Cell for Stage 1 Knee Osteoarthritis.

Consulted with a Doctor who advised against Stem Cell.

Doctor's email:
"
PRP has been effectively used to treat early arthritis of knees. Benefit of addition of stem cells, however have not been clearly documented in arthritis. Stem cells work wonderfully well for limited cartilage injury in the knee, fractures and spine fusions, but their efficacy in treating generalized arthritis has not been well documented.

PRP will be a day care procedure, where as adding stem cells would involve anesthesia and would also increase the cost significantly.

So , with current available evidence and after reading the reports of MRI and X-rays, I would recommend that you could go ahead with PRP alone, although adding stem cells might be of some additional benefit , but it is not proven yet.
"

Posture Guy 01-07-2014 01:51 PM

Raul, I agree with some of what he wrote. If the problem is "just" bony in nature, then I think stem cells are overkill.

But saying it involves "anesthesia"? Wtf? I don't know anyone who had PRP with stem cells that had anesthesia. Doing stem cells added maybe 15 minutes to my procedure time. They numbed up the area, drilled into my pelvis, withdrew bone marrow, then withdrew blood for the platelets, processed it all while I kicked back in a recliner and watched ESPN on a big screen TV, then brought me back into the room after about 45 minutes and injected it all into the knee. Was there for less than 2 hours in total.

Overdrive 01-07-2014 02:02 PM

Posture, what do you think of the moral implications on stem cells? It hasn't been discussed in the media or anyone that I know recently..


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