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-   -   What to do against someone who hits EXTREME net clearance? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=488210)

tennis_hack 01-16-2014 11:50 AM

What to do against someone who hits EXTREME net clearance?
 
Has anyone tried hitting topspin shots with utterly insane net clearance? Nadal hits 10ft or so above the net, but has anyone tried hitting with 4 storeys of net clearance? The height of an average office block? Not flat dinks either, but actual topspin lobs that go 4 storeys high and bounce at the baseline? Preferably to the backhand...

Obviously this tactic could only work outdoors (so those of you lucky enough with access to indoor courts can count yourselves out)...

Has anyone tried that, and was it effective?

At the rec level, if you did not take this ball on the sharp rise, it would easily bounce over the back fence. At the pro level they have more back court area, but still, the ball will probably end up in the stands if not taken as a half volley (which is a risky shot).

If someone did that to you - how would you counter it? You'd be forced to play risky half-volleys from the baseline all the time? You couldn't go to the net to smash it, because even John Isner cannot reach 4 storeys high.

AnaMc 01-16-2014 11:55 AM

Funny, I have been thinking about the same thing -

With enough practice, I think it is possible to hit high lobs with lots of top spin, very difficult to take it out of air, while also kicks forward to the fence if allowed to bounce.

Nobody plays like this though.

dman72 01-16-2014 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_hack (Post 8023732)
Has anyone tried hitting topspin shots with utterly insane net clearance? Nadal hits 10ft or so above the net, but has anyone tried hitting with 4 storeys of net clearance? The height of an average office block? Not flat dinks either, but actual topspin lobs that go 4 storeys high and bounce at the baseline? Preferably to the backhand...

Obviously this tactic could only work outdoors (so those of you lucky enough with access to indoor courts can count yourselves out)...

Has anyone tried that, and was it effective?

At the rec level, if you did not take this ball on the sharp rise, it would easily bounce over the back fence. At the pro level they have more back court area, but still, the ball will probably end up in the stands if not taken as a half volley (which is a risky shot).

If someone did that to you - how would you counter it? You'd be forced to play risky half-volleys from the baseline all the time? You couldn't go to the net to smash it, because even John Isner cannot reach 4 storeys high.

Against someone who could do this consistently, your only hope would be to keep the ball as low as possible..constant slice. If your opponenet can generate a moonball off a shot that bounces a foot off the court, might as well just give up.

dman72 01-16-2014 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnaMc (Post 8023748)
Funny, I have been thinking about the same thing -

With enough practice, I think it is possible to hit high lobs with lots of top spin, very difficult to take it out of air, while also kicks forward to the fence if allowed to bounce.

Nobody plays like this though.

I used this tactic once against the guy I lost too in my league match last night.

During the summer on a gritty court, I had lost a couple of sets. We kept playing, and halfway through the third, I switched to an extreme western grip and starting hitting 20 foot moonballs on every stroke. I'm not even good at this, it's not something I practice. There were numerous shots to his backhand that he couldn't even get a racquet on..nearly bounced over the fence. He was forced to hit overheads on his forehand. I won the set after being down 3-0 or something..and I still made a lot of errors. If I practiced this regulary, forget it.

It absolutey works, and it will also lead to your opponents not wanting to play you again, so tread lightly.

maxpotapov 01-16-2014 12:11 PM

You will have to hit on the rise or half volley.
But it takes patience, you've got to be very calm and soft to catch a high spinning ball off the ground

tennis_hack 01-16-2014 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxpotapov (Post 8023801)
You will have to hit on the rise or half volley.
But it takes patience, you've got to be very calm and soft to catch a high spinning ball off the ground

It seems an unfair advantage though... Hitting a ball that clears the net by 4 storeys with topspin is an extremely safe shot, yet you're being forced to reply to it with an extreme risky shot - a half volley from the baseline.

You don't even have the option to reply with the same shot as your opponent gave you because if you let that ball bounce, it will be over the fence.

And if you're pro, it will be in the stands, unless you're playing at the main court on Indian Wells.

StringingIrvine 01-16-2014 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dman72 (Post 8023751)
Against someone who could do this consistently, your only hope would be to keep the ball as low as possible..constant slice. If your opponenet can generate a moonball off a shot that bounces a foot off the court, might as well just give up.

Maybe its just me but when i'm playing someone that hits with A LOT of top spin and i'm not liking it, i try and get the ball higher. I can put a lot more top spin on a low ball vs high shoulder height ball.

maxpotapov 01-16-2014 12:21 PM

I know, right? :)
Nothing you can do about it... half volley, on the rise or overhead smash

RetroSpin 01-16-2014 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_hack (Post 8023816)
It seems an unfair advantage though... Hitting a ball that clears the net by 4 storeys with topspin is an extremely safe shot, yet you're being forced to reply to it with an extreme risky shot - a half volley from the baseline.

You don't even have the option to reply with the same shot as your opponent gave you because if you let that ball bounce, it will be over the fence.

And if you're pro, it will be in the stands, unless you're playing at the main court on Indian Wells.

I don't actually know if you are serious or not, but a ball that is 4 stories high is going to bounce straight up, not over the back fence. It will lose most of its topspin during the 8 story flight it will be taking. I seriously question your ability to hit 4 story lobs for an entire match as well.

Hitting moonballs though is a proven tactic.

WildVolley 01-16-2014 12:37 PM

tennis hack gets bored every few weeks and trolls, but this "hyper-lob" thread is entertaining.

A ball that is hit four stories high gives the opponent plenty of time to get under it and hit an overhead. If you could effectively do that, it might work at the rec level. It is extremely hard to hit a topspin lob four stories high with much if any sort of topspin, which is why you never see pros do it. Go out on the court and try it if you don't believe me.

An extremely well hit topspin lob doesn't go as high but can sometimes bounce over the back fence if it is struck just right. The downside of such a technique is that if the opponent isn't at net, he will have time to get under it.

TennisCJC 01-16-2014 12:50 PM

As stated above, I don't think it would bounce over the fence as the trajectory would be steep without much forward momentum. Drop it short and players will step in and hit overhead on the fly or on the bounce. Hit it medium deep, and players could take it out of the air with a volley or hit an aggressive FH (hit it that high and even slow players will have time to run around their BH). If it lands deep, maybe you have a good shot but someone with a good overhead would just let it bounce and hit a smash, or moonball it back.

It also will not be easy to do as the racket path would be very steep requiring you to really take the incoming ball with a glancing blow. If you are also trying to hit heavy spin, you would have to have a super steep swing path and catch the ball very thin. Super steep swing path with very thin contact will result in lots of mishits and inaccurate trajectories.

You probably are not serious but I think the strategy pretty much sucks on all fronts. Plus, you will look like a dope and chicks will not dig it.

GuyClinch 01-16-2014 12:58 PM

I think this is a tough shot to hit. That's why people don't try it. I lob to people to practice their overheads sometime and its hard to control a topspin lob thats really high. Not even sure I could do 4 stories. To hit really high lobs I open my face and this reduces topspin..

Topspin Shot 01-16-2014 01:35 PM

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tennis hack moonball! Oh wait....

goran_ace 01-16-2014 01:54 PM

Moonballing was great... in 12 & Under. You could back up an opponent to the fence. Problem with that strategy now is that you are giving your opponent a lot of time to set up for it, and they can let it bounce and then just crank an overhead off of it from the baseline.

AnaMc 01-16-2014 02:58 PM

The other limitation is obviously the wind. Anything above 10mph will make this ball impossible to control.

dominikk1985 01-16-2014 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_hack (Post 8023732)
Has anyone tried hitting topspin shots with utterly insane net clearance? Nadal hits 10ft or so above the net, but has anyone tried hitting with 4 storeys of net clearance? The height of an average office block? Not flat dinks either, but actual topspin lobs that go 4 storeys high and bounce at the baseline? Preferably to the backhand...

Obviously this tactic could only work outdoors (so those of you lucky enough with access to indoor courts can count yourselves out)...

Has anyone tried that, and was it effective?

At the rec level, if you did not take this ball on the sharp rise, it would easily bounce over the back fence. At the pro level they have more back court area, but still, the ball will probably end up in the stands if not taken as a half volley (which is a risky shot).

If someone did that to you - how would you counter it? You'd be forced to play risky half-volleys from the baseline all the time? You couldn't go to the net to smash it, because even John Isner cannot reach 4 storeys high.

why don't you try it and report back?

Power Player 01-16-2014 06:55 PM

Try it and film it.

Nadals net clearance is more like 3 feet. Not 10.

Do you know how high 4 stories actually is?

Also, i played a guy who hit really high so i just hit back overhead smashes. Its not that complicated.

Fuji 01-16-2014 09:19 PM

The number one player on my university team has an unreal topspin lob that he busts out outdoors from time to time. It's roughly 30+ feet in the air and comes down like a missile! Obviously it's not that practical as a normal shot but he does use it if he's on the run, and it creates an abnormally heavy shot that sometimes surprises his opponent. It's pretty neat to see when he does use it.

-Fuji

OTMPut 01-16-2014 10:38 PM

i would play like mcenroe, stand 2-3 feet inside baseline and play swing volleys and drop them short.
it is tough to hit the same topspin lob shot if you are running forward.

maxpotapov 01-16-2014 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuji (Post 8024929)
The number one player on my university team has an unreal topspin lob that he busts out outdoors from time to time. It's roughly 30+ feet in the air and comes down like a missile! Obviously it's not that practical as a normal shot but he does use it if he's on the run, and it creates an abnormally heavy shot that sometimes surprises his opponent. It's pretty neat to see when he does use it.

-Fuji

Shots like that are my favorite, blows the opponent off the court or knocks him down/out of balance :)
Heavy artillery in my book.


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