Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Adult League & Tournament Talk (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35)
-   -   Big USTA League Mixed Doubles Argument (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=496124)

Gut4Tennis 03-28-2014 02:56 PM

Big USTA League Mixed Doubles Argument
 
Here is something that I would like to share with all of the tennis people who play USTA league. I was playing a mixed doubles match last night and this is what happened. No umpire of course.

We won a tight first set in a tiebreaker against a team that has not lost yet this year. All calls were good in the first set, with only one occasion of a slight disagreement. My female served to the male in the deuce court, it was a let court, and the ball landed close to the line, the other female called the serve out, and her male partner overruled her. Sometimes those let serves can be hard to see well.

We were on serve in the second set, we were serving and they had break point against us. My female partner served to the female in the ad court, and when the return came I was on top of the net and volleyed up the middle and it appeared my ball landed inside the baseline or on the baseline. This volley was more of a slow floater, which allowed all to see the ball very well. The female was backing up and her male partner was backing up as well so they were both very close to the base line when the ball landed. As she backed up the ball hit the ground, she swung and she missed the ball into the net, then she looked at her partner hoping he saw the call, he said absolutely nothing. I was watching them closely and what they might say, then started to turn away since no call was made that tells me it was in. she then looked at us and of course I was right on top of the net so I heard that she never said anything. She then looked back at her partner looked at us again and told us "I told my partner it was out."

I'd then said, "Oh Oh no that is completely against the rules, as first you never said anything to him, or us, you then missed the ball, didn't make any call, then waited more than 5 seconds, and then told us that you told your partner it was out. The rules state that you must call a quick and decisive call without a break."

She then said, " but we've given you many calls earlier"

I then said, "anything in the past has nothing to do with what just happened in this point and I've been around the block enough to know the rules, and what you're doing is against the rules. I'm sorry but that's our point."

She then said, "fine if you're going to be like that then take the point."

We proceeded to win that point but then they had Brake points again , and then a few more break points, but we eventually won the game. The next game we broke her serve, and then she quit, saying she felt dizzy. It might of been from the argument. We were up 3-1 with 10 min left so there was no chance they could win at that point anyway.

The way I see it is if I were to let her get away with going against the rules then it would not allow her the chance to grow & better herself into understanding the rules or how a situation like that should be handled.

Some may not agree with how I handled that situation, while some others might applaud me for calling her on the rule. Some people would say we're just here to have fun, so let them have the point, even if it was an ultra late call where they really didn't make any call. If I were to let them get away with railroading a phantom call then it would do injustice to the friend of the court rules.

If I feel a rule is being broken I will stand up for myself and my partner and hold strong.

Anytime when I play if I don't make a quick and decisive call, I then give the point to my opponents. Just because its your call, does not mean you can make the call up and lie about making a call. I have no problem with a late call, but making no call, and then telling us you made the call is an outright lie.

If someone makes a quick and decisive call that I think is really bad, I try my best to not say anything, and just give you the benefit of the doubt of missing the call, but if its not quick and decisive, and I think its a bad call, then your going to have a rules argument with me.

* I will add I'm the only player I have ever seen that calls his own balls out, even after my opponent thinks I hit a winner. Example : I serve up the middle on the deuce court, they don't make a call and start to walk to the other side giving me an ace, and I say immediately, no I missed that serve wide, I cant take that. I've never ever had anyone else do that, so I know I'm very fair. I won't give you anything for free either. You have to earn it, or learn it

Interested to know how you might of handled it.

beernutz 03-28-2014 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gut4Tennis (Post 8227669)
Here is something that I would like to share with all of the tennis people who play USTA league. I was playing a mixed doubles match last night and this is what happened. No umpire of course.

We won a tight first set in a tiebreaker against a team that has not lost yet this year. All calls were good in the first set, with only one occasion of a slight disagreement. My female served to the male in the deuce court, it was a let court, and the ball landed close to the line, the other female called the serve out, and her male partner overruled her. Sometimes those let serves can be hard to see well.

We were on serve in the second set, we were serving and they had break point against us. My female partner served to the female in the ad court, and when the return came I was on top of the net and volleyed up the middle and it appeared my ball landed inside the baseline or on the baseline. This volley was more of a slow floater, which allowed all to see the ball very well. The female was backing up and her male partner was backing up as well so they were both very close to the base line when the ball landed. As she backed up the ball hit the ground, she swung and she missed the ball into the net, then she looked at her partner hoping he saw the call, he said absolutely nothing. I was watching them closely and what they might say, then started to turn away since no call was made that tells me it was in. she then looked at us and of course I was right on top of the net so I heard that she never said anything. She then looked back at her partner looked at us again and told us "I told my partner it was out."

I'd then said, "Oh Oh no that is completely against the rules, as first you never said anything to him, or us, you then missed the ball, didn't make any call, then waited more than 5 seconds, and then told us that you told your partner it was out. The rules state that you must call a quick and decisive call without a break."

She then said, " but we've given you many calls earlier"

I then said, "anything in the past has nothing to do with what just happened in this point and I've been around the block enough to know the rules, and what you're doing is against the rules. I'm sorry but that's our point."

She then said, "fine if you're going to be like that then take the point."

We proceeded to win that point but then they had Brake points again , and then a few more break points, but we eventually won the game. The next game we broke her serve, and then she quit, saying she felt dizzy. It might of been from the argument. We were up 3-1 with 10 min left so there was no chance they could win at that point anyway.

The way I see it is if I were to let her get away with going against the rules then it would not allow her the chance to grow & better herself into understanding the rules or how a situation like that should be handled.

Some may not agree with how I handled that situation, while some others might applaud me for calling her on the rule. Some people would say we're just here to have fun, so let them have the point, even if it was an ultra late call where they really didn't make any call. If I were to let them get away with railroading a phantom call then it would do injustice to the friend of the court rules.

If I feel a rule is being broken I will stand up for myself and my partner and hold strong.

Anytime when I play if I don't make a quick and decisive call, I then give the point to my opponents. Just because its your call, does not mean you can make the call up and lie about making a call. I have no problem with a late call, but making no call, and then telling us you made the call is an outright lie.

If someone makes a quick and decisive call that I think is really bad, I try my best to not say anything, and just give you the benefit of the doubt of missing the call, but if its not quick and decisive, and I think its a bad call, then your going to have a rules argument with me.

* I will add I'm the only player I have ever seen that calls his own balls out, even after my opponent thinks I hit a winner. Example : I serve up the middle on the deuce court, they don't make a call and start to walk to the other side giving me an ace, and I say immediately, no I missed that serve wide, I cant take that. I've never ever had anyone else do that, so I know I'm very fair. I won't give you anything for free either. You have to earn it, or learn it

Interested to know how you might of handled it.

What do you mean by the bolded part? She hit the ball and it went into the net?

gmatheis 03-28-2014 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beernutz (Post 8227758)
What do you mean by the bolded part? She hit the ball and it went into the net?

I'm not the OP but that's obvious ... the opposing woman attempted to play the ball but her shot went into the net.


To the OP - It can be hard to apply the rules to such a situation, but from what you described it seems that you did the right thing. Of course we're only getting your side of the story to go by.

jonnyjack 03-28-2014 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gut4Tennis (Post 8227669)
She then said, " but we've given you many calls earlier"

I hate it when people say that!

As far as your situation, I think you handled it correctly. That's what I would do. Also, I played against a guy once that I knew and he called an overhead that he hit wide on himself. He's the only guy I've seen do that in competition. I would do the same if I clearly saw it out. When I'm not sure then I can only go with the opponents call. Sometimes I think I hit a ball out and the opponent will tell me it's way in.

Gut4Tennis 03-28-2014 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis (Post 8227788)
I'm not the OP but that's obvious ... the opposing woman attempted to play the ball but her shot went into the net.


To the OP - It can be hard to apply the rules to such a situation, but from what you described it seems that you did the right thing. Of course we're only getting your side of the story to go by.

Yes you're correct in all of what you said above.

She swung at my shot while backing up and hit the ball in the net.

I tried to be very detailed to give the best picture of everything that happened, yet you're right, its only one side of the story.

mikeler 03-28-2014 04:42 PM

OP,

Thanks for posting a topic about tennis. The Odds and Ends servers sincerely thank you.

Gut4Tennis 03-28-2014 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 8228011)
OP,

Thanks for posting a topic about tennis. The Odds and Ends servers sincerely thank you.

I know right!

Thanks for noticing.

Now how about you chime in on this situation??!! :twisted:

Ronaldo 03-28-2014 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyjack (Post 8227791)
I hate it when people say that!

As far as your situation, I think you handled it correctly. That's what I would do. Also, I played against a guy once that I knew and he called an overhead that he hit wide on himself. He's the only guy I've seen do that in competition. I would do the same if I clearly saw it out. When I'm not sure then I can only go with the opponents call. Sometimes I think I hit a ball out and the opponent will tell me it's way in.

Called the ball out on myself before it landed in. Asked him if he was sure? Worse than the end of this Michigan/Tennessee game.

J_R_B 03-28-2014 06:00 PM

It sounds like you did the right thing, although I always take these stories with a grain of salt since we're only getting one perspective of the situation. This is a league match. I'd protest getting hooked on a line call as well.

Ronaldo 03-28-2014 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R_B (Post 8228197)
It sounds like you did the right thing, although I always take these stories with a grain of salt since we're only getting one perspective of the situation. This is a league match. I'd protest getting hooked on a line call as well.

Got Hooked by myself?

mikeler 03-28-2014 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gut4Tennis (Post 8228016)
I know right!

Thanks for noticing.

Now how about you chime in on this situation??!! :twisted:

No way, if I have to read more than 5 sentences I require an Executive summary.

J_R_B 03-28-2014 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldo (Post 8228227)
Got Hooked by myself?

Sorry, that response was to the OP, not you. LOL. You should have started a fight with yourself.

Ronaldo 03-28-2014 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R_B (Post 8228277)
Sorry, that response was to the OP, not you. LOL. You should have started a fight with yourself.

Sometimes you win

tenniscasey 03-28-2014 09:08 PM

I probably would have given them the point, but I would have asked them to make future out calls more immediate and obvious.

I can't blame you for taking it and explaining why you were taking it.

corbind 03-28-2014 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gut4Tennis (Post 8227669)
Anytime when I play if I don't make a quick and decisive call, I then give the point to my opponents. Just because its your call, does not mean you can make the call up and lie about making a call. I have no problem with a late call, but making no call, and then telling us you made the call is an outright lie.

I know you don't have a crystal ball but have any idea why she bothered to make up those two things? Just seem really, er, wrong. I mean when I'm confused on a call I look at my partner. If he gives me the big, blank stare I just call it in and move on. So any insight as to why she'd be so crazy?

Gut4Tennis 03-29-2014 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corbind (Post 8228596)
I know you don't have a crystal ball but have any idea why she bothered to make up those two things? Just seem really, er, wrong. I mean when I'm confused on a call I look at my partner. If he gives me the big, blank stare I just call it in and move on. So any insight as to why she'd be so crazy?


she did not like the other female, as she has played against her many times, also she had not lost all year with this male partner, something like 15 matches

Moz 03-29-2014 08:57 AM

Ha ha memories of USTA mixed. What was G.L.'s (one of your opponents) take on the situation? He's an ex-teammate of mine and has always been fair on court.

Gut4Tennis 03-29-2014 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moz (Post 8229093)
Ha ha memories of USTA mixed. What was G.L.'s (one of your opponents) take on the situation? He's an ex-teammate of mine and has always been fair on court.

He was 100% silent the whole time. He did not say anything.

I never even asked him if she told him it was out, because I was watching her lips and she never said a word to him, so no need to even get him involved. They are both good people, yet when your balls are put to the wall the pressure can bring out the worst in ya sometimes.

Moz 03-29-2014 09:05 AM

Sounds like he may have been put in an awkward situation, suggesting your interpretation of the bounce was correct.

Yours is a good example of the difficulties that occur in league play where there's this serious will to win without the serious will to play to the rules. Another example is playing lets when people aren't sure of the call or blatant footfaulting.

I prefer it when it's done by the book as it makes things clear from the start.

Cindysphinx 03-29-2014 09:32 AM

OP did just fine. I have had this sort of thing happen many times, but if she had stuck by her call, then nothing more can be done.

Along those lines, I would not have given you the point had I disagreed with your interpretation. The mere fact that an opponent doesn't hear my call does not mean I didn't make a call. Now, in this case, you were close enough to be certain she didn't make a call, so it's all good.

I have had opponents try to pull the "You didn't make a call so that means it's our point" thing. Example: I am running back toward the baseline, and we are playing in a noisy bubble. Your shot lands out by three feet. I will not scream an out call like I am calling balls and strikes at the World Series. I will make a normal call, maybe raising a finger.

You may not see this. But it is still my point.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse