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-   -   Did Coria throw the final b/c of pressure from the mob? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=6417)

lelopez 06-09-2004 08:02 AM

Did Coria throw the final b/c of pressure from the mob?
 
In a recent interview he was concerned that he could be a target of blackmail just like many of his contrymen have been in other sports.

Did anyone else find it "odd" that he was running like crazy and all of the sudden "cramped up" only to later run again like usual? Does anyone else think that he threw that game?

Although I'm glad Gaudio won (can't stand Coria since he beat Agassi in the quarters last year), I think this is an issue that should be investigated for the sake of tennis.

L.

James Brown 06-09-2004 08:11 AM

he wasnt running as per usual in the end. he wasnt going into his strokes either. notice he still couldnt serve properly? I think coria just got the cramp or whatever and lost because of it. not much you can do.

lelopez 06-09-2004 08:48 AM

hmmm.......I did notice all of that in the last set, however I put myslef in his shoes and probably would have wanted to "disguise" the fact that I could run a little as not to make it TOO obvious.

I know he has been prone to cramps and withdrawals in the past and don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of him whatsoever, it was just a little "suspect" the way he cramped up all of the sudden and then came back.......

Camilio Pascual 06-09-2004 08:53 AM

To answer your questions:
1. No, because that has happened with me dozens of times.
2. Which game or are you talking about a set? If you are asking if he threw the 4th set, I would say I'm convinced he did, as it would have been what I would have done in similar circumstances to buy time.
A couple of questions for you, mainly because I'm surprised that many here don't seem to understand what Coria was doing.
Have you played exhausting, competitive tennis for hours for big stakes (whatever that means to you personally) and had cramps that come and go? If no, you don't need to answer the next question.
How did you handle it when these cramps were coming and going?

SC in MA 06-09-2004 09:32 AM

I don't see how you can think Coria threw that match. Afterall, he had two match points and on both those match points, his out balls were barely wide. Also on those match points, my recollection is that there were a pretty good number of strokes, meaning that Gaudio could have easily choked during the matchpoint exchanges giving the match to Coria. If Coria was intending to throw the match, I don't think he would have made the match that close.

My feeling is he basically had cramps, whether caused by nerves or something physical. I think he did his best to fight through whatever the problem was and he almost won the match.

Just my $.02.

Tennis Sucks 06-09-2004 09:54 AM

I have a source in Argentina that has been sending me info concerning this very subject. Franco Squillari, who is currently ranked 107th, came home to find all of his racquets cut off at the handle. The group responsible is commonly known as "The Argentine 6", six players who could not make it on the main tour. They reportedly have photos of Gaudio in the shop getting his racquet "cosmetically altered".

It may have been cramps. Who knows?

Don Felder 06-09-2004 10:02 AM

Camilio, it is painfully obvious that many here have never played tennis at a level high enough to experience nervous and/or fatigue cramps.

I have been prone to leg cramps of all kinds, mostly in the quadriceps and hamstring areas, and I can reassure all of you that they will come and go during a match once they start. You'll lock up, walk it or stretch it off for a few games, and then they will return to haunt you in your third set tiebreak.

Recently, in the finals of a tournament I competed in, I was playing my good friend who is very even with me. The first two sets were long and grueling and in the third set, I jumped out to a 4-1 lead. It was in the sixth game that I experienced a severe cramp in my left quadricep that left me unable to move for a few games. I took my injury timeout, stretched it out a bit, and drank a Gatorade. I basically gave my friend the next 2 games in order to let the charlie horse work itself out and loosen up. It did, and I went on to win the match 6-3 in the third. However, shortly after I left the court, it locked up again and I had to stretch it out again. Then, as soon as I was loose, I waited for twenty minutes to make sure it was gone, as I had to drive 30 highway miles to get home. It seemed fine, and then halfway home, it started charlie horsing again. Fortunately, I am a fantastic driver and was able to maintain full control of the vehicle while I rubbed it back out.

I appear to have gone off on a bit of a tangent with my story, but the point I'm trying to make is Coria was not faking it - something contributed to his cramps, whether it was nerves, dehydration, lack of sleep, a combination of any of those. Then, something contributed to the relief he seemed to find - possibly adrenaline, possibly the trainer's ointment/treatment. He was not faking. Hold off on your theories lelopez... or should I call you Mel Gibson?

bravestennis 06-09-2004 11:10 AM

I don't think he would have thrown it, but wasn't argintina that the night after losing a soccer match they found some players shot to death on a street? You also can't say that someone could have made massive money on the match.

@wright 06-09-2004 11:23 AM

I agree, how absurd that Coria would throw the biggest match of his life because he is scared of a bunch of western Europeans. If anything he should be scared about what will happen when he gets home, considering he lost a slam final. Did anyone see what happened to the Columbian who scored the self goal, cementing his country's loss to the USA in World Cup '94? He got pumped full of lead just sitting in his car at an intersection. That'll ruin your day. Coria did his best and it just barely wasn't enough. Any player who would throw a slam final needs a checkup from the neck up.

C. Dale 06-09-2004 11:36 AM

Obviousness
 
Without wishing to be contrary, I don't think that there is very much about the third and fourth sets that is truly obvious. The bidding-time-to-recover-from-a-cramp theory seems quite reasonable. But, while he was receiving treatment, Coria did not appear to be in the type of significant discomfort one might have expected due to serious cramping. So, it is not entirely unreasonable to wonder if other theories might explain the outcome.

Netbudda 06-09-2004 11:47 AM

Read the final interview www.frenchopen.org The whole ordeal was that he was so nervous that he was cramping, how can he be exhausted after creaming Gaudio for 2 short sets...??? He started feeling weird on the third set maybe out of realizing we could win the whole thing, after the third set the ATP trainer gave him a tablet and told him that it would take 10 to 15 minutes to take effect, he decided to wait and tank the 4th set. You can see that he was feeling better on the 5th but he couldn't serve to save his life.

Netbudda

@wright 06-09-2004 11:51 AM

The serve thing could also be credited to nerves. Coria was the favorite to win the biggest tournament in the world(to him), everyone has said he would win it for the last month, how would you feel with that kind of pressure? None of us will probably ever do anything feeling as much pressure as Coria was under.

tetsuo10 06-09-2004 12:19 PM

A lot of people have jobs under high pressure, where if they are late delivering projects millions of dollars are lost; they have all the people involved and as well as the health of the company at stake, including their own jobs and their ability to support their families. I think that qualifies as high pressure. Coria was only playing for himself.

lelopez 06-09-2004 01:55 PM

looks like I started something pretty good here....

....I have played very competitive, lengthy matches that have caused me to cramp up. I would usually had to walk around or jump to keep moving the muscle that was cramping...but I've never had a cramp that has left me completely immobilized so I don't think I can compare my experiences with those of a Grand Slam Final. These are world class athletes that their job is to be in great shape so things like this don't happen....they spend countless hours training their bodies to endure these physical and mental situations. All I know is that I've never had severe cramps when I've been crusing through a match like Coria was.......but again, that's not to say it is not impossible since it has happened to him in the past.

....and yes, I'm talking about the entire 4th set during the match

The only reason I brought up the mob thing is because I find it kind of peculiar that shortly after him making a comment that he could be a target of blackmail by Argentine gangsters, this happens in the French Open. Again, his cramps could have been genuine and that is just really, really bad luck for him.

As for making the match that close if Coria intended to throw the match all along......well, have you ever heard of covering a spread in Vegas??? it happens everyday. Maybe he "was forced" to take it to 5 sets and whatever happened in the 5th set was up for grabs.......again, it is not impossible but just a theory.

Hate to be the antagonist here, but Netbudda, do you think they would publish "the truth" in the www.frenchopen.org site??? I'm sure if this theory was true that there is no way Coria would have said " oh yeah, a couple of real scary people over in Argentina let me know that they had large money on this match going to 5 sets, so when I saw that I was going to wrap things up quickly I knew what I had to do to stay out of trouble"

Again, don't take all of this so seriously, I just hope for the sake of the sport that this theory was not the case. It happens in almost every sport that is played around the world, from collegiate to the professional level and I would hate for it to be the case in tennis.

L.

Kevin Patrick 06-09-2004 02:00 PM

I certainly don't believe Coria's goal was anything other than winning the match. But as far as the whole cramping thing, my head says it was legit, but my gut says "?"
There have been many cases of players exaggerating injuries in order to throw off opponents over the years. I don't believe anyone who saw the Coria-Gaudio SF last year in Hamburg honestly thought Coria had anything physically wrong with him, he was solely doing it to f--- with gaudio's head. I hope it was legit this time, but it's like the boy who cried wolf. When you have a rep, it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt.
As far as blackmail, death threats, etc:
Soccer is much more popular than tennis in South America(the player that got killed was playing for his country, tennis players play for themselves) & Argentina was guaranteed a champion anyway so I highly doubt anything else was happening behind the scenes.

cheezecake 06-09-2004 02:02 PM

I think Coria was faking it. Like the time he faked his back injury playing with Roddick in the Finals.

pound cat 06-09-2004 02:46 PM

Which evidently turned out to be kidney stones which are pretty hard to fake unless you swallow pebbles with H2O on the changeovers . Anyone see Coria doing this? And tennis sucks, I hope your "Argentinian connection" was meant to be humourous, because it is. The threat to Argentinian players (or anyone else has a big whack of money) is real, & Nalbandian had a family kidnapping threat & didn't appear in Argentina for 6 months after Wimbledon. (Nice guy, he made sure HE wasn't the one in the family who was kidnapped) And I'm sure Gaudio has opened a bank account in Switzerland.
If Coria was faking cramps it was a plan that went terribly wrong. No investigation needed here IMO.

lelopez 06-09-2004 02:56 PM

Coria seems like a nice guy.....but didn't he take some "performance enhancers" one time and was suspended for it?.......of course, he claimed that they were given to him without his knowledge.

Netbudda 06-09-2004 03:01 PM

What is published on www.frenchopen.org is the interview they have to do after the match, so basically is the all thing typed. If Coria was faking the cramps he did extremely good since he got his poor service broken on the last 4 games he served. Heck of an act...!!!

perfmode 06-09-2004 03:08 PM

It's possible. Brazillian soccer players have to deal with things like that all the time. There is a lot of pressure from the mafia/mob or whatever you want to call it.


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