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-   -   I think that unless some real stringers and companies... (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=6747)

TommyGun 06-15-2004 06:05 AM

I think that unless some real stringers and companies...
 
post here, all this talk is just crap.

I called head when I saw that Safin had a prestige with LM paint job at the Aussie. The customer service rep swore that it was in fact a LM prestige, but I know it wasn't because the racquet tech for him told me so.

It is actually false advertising to do that, and if more customers complained to the companies and maybe even the Federal Trade Commission that practice would stop.

It should show you that the companies are all about marketing, not about integrity and the real customer.

tg

mary fierce 06-15-2004 06:32 AM

Point taken....I e-mailed Prince on this deception once and got no reply. Please don't tell me you have NOT contacted the FTC about this matter.

Lambro 06-15-2004 12:45 PM

some of us are in the proximity of pros and pro stringers.

I saw Agassi at my club 3 times last month and our stringer does his racquets....

If you email a company and think they are going to put those answers to you truthfully and in writing, you have a tough road ahead in life

tennisnoob 06-15-2004 09:25 PM

It's going to be a long shot trying to get FTC involve in this paintjob deception business. Why bother in the first place? Why this particular grudge against racket companies? If they don't carry out such marketing strategies, how are they going to promote and sell their new products? Its those professional player's careers we are talking about so often when we discuss about this. I mean put yourself in Safin's shoes, you are a tennis pro and having used a particular brand and model of racket for centuries, you would be most inclined to stick to your current stick rather to change it, am i rite? But then again in order to capitalize on your status and to try and continue your endorsement which will ultimately bring more limelight to their company, they simply have no choice but to carry out such deception. I'm damn sure if every company has a choice, they would rather not deploy such marketing tactics but again we ask what other choices do they have if they want to market their new technologies and products? Come on, there are even worse marketing tactics and strategies being used for other products and companies out there. So chill out and just enjoy the game!

dax_q 06-16-2004 06:44 AM

I don't see the problem here. For example. The juniors today will play with the LM Prestige because they think their favorite pros are playing with that racquet. Five years down the road when they become pros, they will still be playing with the LM, but it will be painted to match whatever head is marketing then. The racquets of today, will be the paintjobs of tomorrow.

drakulie 06-16-2004 09:10 AM

John Mcenroe played with a wood racquet painted to look like a Dunlop Max 200G.

bsandy 06-16-2004 10:51 AM

eMail Nascar and tell them their drivers aren't really using the Chevy Monte Carlo, Ford Taurus, and Dodge Stratus.

Get over it . . . ! ! !

bigserving 06-16-2004 12:15 PM

Auto manufactures have their name plastered all over cars and apparel in NASCAR but their fans are not naive enough to think that they can walk into a showroom and buy the same car with the same motor that was on the track Sunday. We don't hear race fans expressing surprise and outrage about the fact that those cars are custom made.

What should we realistically think about this? Racquet companies pay tennis players a bunch of money to "endorse" that company. The paint jobs on the player's racquets are there only to identify a player with that manufacturer, it is not a attempt to deceive anyone. The same goes for the string logos. What is it that you would like manufactures to do, create a different racquet line, with a different paint job for each player?

Pete Sampras, Tommy Haas and other pros have worn Nike Air Oscillates long after they were no longer available to the public. Did we think that they came off the shelf or are they customs?

When we buy a Jerry Rice football jersey, we don't think it is the same that he wears in the games. His are custom made. PGA golfers don't buy their clubs at Sport Mart they are all custom yet their is no outrage from golf fans! The other day I say a Ken Griffey Jr. baseball glove in a right-hander's model. What should I do, call the FTC?

Do you think that you can walk into a store and buy Lance Armstrong's bicycle?

What would happen if we found out that George Foreman was really a vegetarian? Should we demand refunds for millions of grilling machines?

**NEWSFLASH** If you play with Roger Federer's racquet, it will not make you play like Roger Federer!

When you want to buy a new frame, the first thing that you should do is to know your current racquet very well. Then, know what kind of performance you would like in your new frame compare to your old. Then, demo a few that fit that criteria and buy the ones that suit YOUR game the best and have fun.

bigserving 06-16-2004 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsandy
eMail Nascar and tell them their drivers aren't really using the Chevy Monte Carlo, Ford Taurus, and Dodge Stratus.

Get over it . . . ! ! !

I didn't plagarize, we think alike!!

a verrry large duck 06-16-2004 02:11 PM

bsandy:

eMail Nascar and tell them their drivers aren't really using the Chevy Monte Carlo, Ford Taurus, and Dodge Stratus.

Show me a ford or chevy or whatever commercial webpage that has a picture of nascar drive or whoever in their "ford taurus" ,and beside it have a specification list giving you the specs of a production "ford taurus", and then underneath it claim that "above car is used by so and so" or "the car that won the daytona 500".

dax_q:

The juniors today will play with the LM Prestige because they think their favorite pros are playing with that racquet. Five years down the road when they become pros, they will still be playing with the LM

I disagree. For example since you talking about Head, I am pretty sure no pro player in the future, good enough for an endorsement and paintjob, will ever be playing with a Ti.Radical, and i.Radical, or a LM radical. I doubt you can even return a pro kick serve with a sub 11oz or near 11 oz racquet. It is not obviously easy to figure out fact, and I for one didn't know until i came on these messageboards and found out the true weights of these pro racquets, that's why they can get away with it.

tennisnoob:

It's going to be a long shot trying to get FTC involve in this paintjob deception business.

Well you're right its a deception business. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think "intentionally painting your product so as to fool people into thinking its something else" is necessary in order to beef up revenues. I'm sure you will find many examples of marketing where they don't do this and the world didn't fall apart and the whole industry won't die. People will still buy racquets, even the grandpa ones.

kooyah 06-16-2004 04:34 PM

Re: I think that unless some real stringers and companies...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyGun
if more customers complained to the companies

Why would I do that? There are countless racquets available to the public. If I can't find one that works for me, the problem is with me and my game. The problem is NOT that I can't have the exact same racquet that Federer, Agassi or whichever professional player uses.

tennisnoob 06-16-2004 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a verrry large duck

Well you're right its a deception business. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think "intentionally painting your product so as to fool people into thinking its something else" is necessary in order to beef up revenues. I'm sure you will find many examples of marketing where they don't do this and the world didn't fall apart and the whole industry won't die. People will still buy racquets, even the grandpa ones.


Perhaps you can come up with a perfect marketing plan for them racket companies? What'd you expect them to do? Have Wilson to allow Federer to continue using the PS 85 w/o the Tour 90 & Ncode paint? Let's be a little bit more realistic here, these businesses exists to make money & profits, and if possible thru any means that will entice ppl to buy their products, period! Lets face it, this is the real world we live in, if one racket company doesn't use such marketing tactics, others will do it and will gladly take over its market share. And seriously, if you want to blame anyone, you can take it up to those tennis pros and see how they respond to you in kind for trying to mess up their endorsement contracts....

a verrry large duck 06-16-2004 09:07 PM

koohyah:
The problem is NOT that I can't have the exact same racquet that Federer, Agassi or whichever professional player uses.

You can when you go into the bosworth vintage racquets. I really don't think everyone who goes in there and buy those racquets must somehow have a problem with their game or mentality or anything of a negative nature, or expect to hit a lendl forehand with a lendl racquet for example. I don't see the connection between getting ahold of an on-spec racquet and "having problems with one's game". The bosworth collection is a wonderful addition to TW in my humble opinion. And hey, if a company decides to not make a racquet spec anywhere near, available to the public, for whatever reason, I don't have any problem with it, but the solution is not to intentionally deceive people with wrong specs TO THINK THEY ARE.

tennisnoob:
What'd you expect them to do? Have Wilson to allow Federer to continue using the PS 85 w/o the Tour 90 & Ncode paint?

No. You can paint stawberry shortcakes on those racquets for all I care, just don't claim federer used it to win wimbledon when he didn't.

tennisnoob:
Let's be a little bit more realistic here, these businesses exists to make money & profits, and if possible thru any means that will entice ppl to buy their products, period!

I disagree with "thru any means...".

PrestigeClassic 06-16-2004 09:11 PM

Rubbish! It's only a deceptive business plan if you think you are being deceived. I mean, I usually don't like blaming the victim, but come on, don't believe everything you see from a mile away. Most top players seem to play with rackets that came from their company anyway. It really is not going to change your amateur tennis career whether you are playing with a Prestige Classic, i.prestige, or LM Prestige or Tour 90, St. Vincent Pro Staff (well, then you might be WORSE!), etc. For the vast majority of players, the game is played on a amateur level for fun and exercise.

Most amateur players obviously don't know and don't care what materials are in Roger Federer's racket (hint: it's probably graphite and Kevlar). And if you do know, it won't affect you at all! Do you want all pros to play with current models with no lead tape as most amateurs do? Or should we each have our custom mold and regularly test out different specs? Obviously these things would make no sense and I believe everything is fine as it is. If you all you want are pro sticks, then cut your losses and sell your LM Prestige and add some lead tape to a Prestige Classic.

This is why tennis is hierarchical and has rankings!!!! Seriously, nobody cares what some joe blow has to say about some racket they saw some player swinging on TV. Get a life!!!!

dax_q 06-17-2004 10:35 AM

Very large duck
I was just using an lm prestige for example because it seems to be a popular racquet right now. It is a 12.3 ounce stock racquet. Not 11 or sub 11 ounce racquet. A leather grip and some lead tape and it is 13 ounces easy.

TommyGun 06-17-2004 11:55 AM

To answer your "issue"
 
First, you can tell us all not to "cry" but if I actually owned a Ferrari then sold you a Honda kit car that looked like a Ferrarri, because you wanted the one I used, in the US that would be fraud.

This is not marketing, nor sales. It is actually a deceptive practice that in other industries with more money companies would get fined and possibly have people go to jail.

If Roger isn't using an nCode, then it shouln't look like one. Everyone knows that player copy-cating (if thats a word) is a big reason tennis players buy frames. Since it is well known that this is one of the largest sales boosters, then it is actually wrong for a company to tell you a guy is using a frame when he is actually using another.

To give you a better example, I play a Rickenbacker bass guitar. Mine looks like everyone elses from a distance, but i use a custom string that you can't buy anymore. I still use the STOCK Rickenbacker 4003 in Jet Black, but with custom strings. THAT is not fraud, because even though I use a customized string, the guy can go to the store and buy essentially the same bass.

If you go to the store and buy an nCode six, you are NOT getting even a stock model of what Federer is using, because he is NOT using nCode base or stock frames to start with.

Marketing and sales are NOT defined as fraud and deceipt, which this tennis industry wide practice is.

I suppose only the new Volkl V-engines and the X-45 can honestly say someone is using a certain model because you can't paint in a throat V or an offset head.

Datacipher 06-17-2004 12:54 PM

I agree Tommy. And for once I even agree with Duck. Any way you try to justify it or talk around it. It is deliberate consumer deception. They print outright lies. It is unethical and shameful if not illegal. They are showing complete disrespect for us when they try to deceive us like this. I don't think it will change...but it is pathetic.

Oh and for those of you who own small business....think of what would happen if you were caught doing this kind of thing...

a verrry large duck 06-17-2004 02:50 PM

prestigeclassic:
I mean, I usually don't like blaming the victim, but come on, don't believe everything you see from a mile away.

I don't at all think its obvious. I mean look at some of the investigations going on into "what's really under the hood" in this pro player racquet folder. People will zoom in at the throat and notice its flat or curved or whatever to deductively reason that's not a certain racquet and continue the investigation. My goodness, even if you're resourceful and a careful consumer, you can't even get the correct info to shop on, doesn't that bug you at all? I'd like to know one person in this whole messageboard, that before he came on this messageboard, had the superior common sense or intuition that they saw andre agassi playing with a ti.radical and say "oh yeah, that's so obvious that's not a ti.radical". I highly doubt it. I wasted over a $100 bucks on a racquet that i was trying to choose: a real light tweener or a heavier one, and since I didn't have any more info to go on, I picked the one that I saw the pro play with because I thought that REPRESENTED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF QUALITY. Lo and behold, come on this board, and I found out the truth. And even worse, that other racquet i discounted turned out to be much better for me and quality-wise and ended up playing with it. It hits my piggy bank you betcha I'll say something.


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