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raiden031 09-07-2006 08:51 AM

jumping when serving
 
Are you supposed to jump when serving? I noticed the pros do it but I wasn't sure if its required or because its the only way to hit the right speed for that level of playing.

Nobody I play against does it, but maybe thats because at the 3.0-3.5 level serves are not developed enough.

MasterTS 09-07-2006 08:56 AM

They aren't jumping... they are pushing off the legs to transfer energy into the swinging motion. You have to time the leg trust with the hip/shoulder/arm/wrist motion in sequence.. So simply jumping won't help.

raiden031 09-07-2006 09:03 AM

Let me rephrase the question, should both feet be in the air during some part of the serve, whether it be due to a push/thrust or a jump?

MasterTS 09-07-2006 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031
Let me rephrase the question, should both feet be in the air during some part of the serve, whether it be due to a push/thrust or a jump?

Yes btoh feet should.

Bagumbawalla 09-07-2006 11:02 AM

In general, the faster/harder servers get both feet off the ground as they hit and follow through. Is it necessary to do that to be a good server. No, there are very good servers who keep both (or one) foot planed (they may not ever reach the 140 mph velocity of the others.

jackson vile 09-07-2006 01:31 PM

If you want to mess your serve up really fast start jumping:mrgreen:

They bend the knees and is more of a lean back and this is part of the bow and shoulder rotation, I highly recomend people to just let it happen naturally as you can learn an incorrect pattern very very quickly.

That is not an important part to a serve anyways your toss, racket drop, and shoulder rotation gives you all the power.

jackson vile 09-07-2006 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagumbawalla
In general, the faster/harder servers get both feet off the ground as they hit and follow through. Is it necessary to do that to be a good server. No, there are very good servers who keep both (or one) foot planed (they may not ever reach the 140 mph velocity of the others.


The feet off the ground is just a result of the hitting action as the racket is pulled through the shot from what I understand, so the uper body bends forward and the lower body is thus moved upwards, combined with the original force that went upwards in the racket swinging up?

Bungalo Bill 09-07-2006 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
The feet off the ground is just a result of the hitting action as the racket is pulled through the shot from what I understand, so the uper body bends forward and the lower body is thus moved upwards, combined with the original force that went upwards in the racket swinging up?

It is not only an upward effort going to the ball but also a push from the toes to assist in the upward effort.

jackson vile 09-07-2006 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
It is not only an upward effort going to the ball but also a push from the toes to assist in the upward effort.


I have seen some that will use the coil/bow to push all the energy forward into the shot and some extreme on the upwards.

I don't think the toes has anything to do with anything as the force the toes exert is nothing compared to the quads or posterier cahin

Bagumbawalla 09-07-2006 09:06 PM

I beleive that there are, basically, two benefits to getting ones feet off the ground, and this applies only to advanced players. The writer up above, who said you can mess up your serve is correct. Serving, well, is difficult enough. Throwing all your weight up and into the court is for the highly co-ordinated.

Anyway, the two benefits are 1, it gives you a higher vantage point from which to hit the ball down into the service court (enabeling one to hit harder and keep the ball in.

The other benefit 2, is basically the same, it brings you slightly closer to the net without stepping onto the court and foot-faulting-- also giving you an improved angle to keep a faster/flatter ball in the service court.

Most likely a taller person 6'4" and up could find a similar angle with planted feet or by simply stepping foreward into the court after contact.

Bungalo Bill 09-08-2006 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
I have seen some that will use the coil/bow to push all the energy forward into the shot and some extreme on the upwards.

I don't think the toes has anything to do with anything as the force the toes exert is nothing compared to the quads or posterier cahin

LOL, well this is totaly wrong again! Pushing off from your toes is what contributes to getting a player off the ground! It is the final link in the push-off after the legs provide thrust.

If you are not pushing off from your toes, you are not gaining everything you can out of the serve! Knees extend, toes spring you off the ground. Keep learning! lol

Study, study, study, review, review, review, slo-mo, slo-mo, someday you will get it.


Legs, then toes, legs then toes, legs then toes, legs then toes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGAur...elated&search=

When you slow this baby way down you can see the toes DO INDEED CONTRIBUTE TO THE PUSH-OFF!!!! This is important, this is important, this is important...;)

Here is more to put you to shame!!!!! Toes, toes, toes!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-vgu...elated&search=

Another important element is the non-dominant arm folding in to break the shoulder and allow the hitting shoulder and arm to flow through in acceleration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfAx...elated&search=

MasterTS 09-08-2006 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
LOL, ...., someday you will get it.


LOL someday, right BB?

Bungalo Bill 09-08-2006 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterTS
LOL someday, right BB?

I love making that guy look like a nut. He provides the worst threads I have ever witnessed in the years I have been on this board - thee worst. ;)

jackson vile 09-08-2006 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
LOL, well this is totaly wrong again! Pushing off from your toes is what contributes to getting a player off the ground! It is the final link in the push-off after the legs provide thrust.

If you are not pushing off from your toes, you are not gaining everything you can out of the serve! Knees extend, toes spring you off the ground. Keep learning! lol

Study, study, study, review, review, review, slo-mo, slo-mo, someday you will get it.


Legs, then toes, legs then toes, legs then toes, legs then toes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGAur...elated&search=

When you slow this baby way down you can see the toes DO INDEED CONTRIBUTE TO THE PUSH-OFF!!!! This is important, this is important, this is important...;)

Here is more to put you to shame!!!!! Toes, toes, toes!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-vgu...elated&search=

Another important element is the non-dominant arm folding in to break the shoulder and allow the hitting shoulder and arm to flow through in acceleration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfAx...elated&search=


Man you get older and dumber every day LOL and you are WRONG!

The toes do not aply any appreciable force themselves, you need to go back to school. And certainly do not push off anything, that is the knee extensors, hip extensors, and flexion of the calf dumby. :mrgreen:

Further more what you're old feeble mind may be trying to express is that energy is transfered from the BALLS of the feet to the ground that was originally produced from the rest of the body in the bow/coil position


Toes do nothing, as this is not dance class fruity old man:p

Get a book on bio mechanics, though I don't think it would do you any good

MasterTS 09-08-2006 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
dumby. :mrgreen:

Did you mean 'dummy'?

Bungalo Bill 09-08-2006 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
Man you get older and dumber every day LOL and you are WRONG!

LOL, prove it!

Quote:

The toes do not aply any appreciable force themselves, you need to go back to school. And certainly do not push off anything, that is the knee extensors, hip extensors, and flexion of the calf dumby. :mrgreen:
Oh, now it is personal. I thought you were the one complaining about "personal attacks"? Well, here goes Einstein. Springing from the toes is an important element in a person that rises from an entire kinetic chain. It is clear that professional players use their toes as a spring board to help in the thrust upward. I just proved it with film that the toes are indeed involved. How much they contribute to upward thrust? That is another topic that requires analysis. But they do indeed contirbute to upward thrust in a serve and are important in helping a player send his energy upward. This is something you said isn't happening.

Quote:

Further more what you're old feeble mind may be trying to express is that energy is transfered from the BALLS of the feet to the ground that was originally produced from the rest of the body in the bow/coil position
Whether you want to use balls of the feet or not. The truth of the matter is the toes are certainly involved in the serve motion. They provide that extra pushoff from the balls of the feet AND THE TOES. So your information above was false and misleading once again.


Quote:

Toes do nothing, as this is not dance class fruity old man:p
In order to balance yourself on the BALLS of the feet the toes must be involved. They have the strength in them that help a player push-off. Simply getting on the balls of your feet does nothing without pressure being applied in the toes!!! Keep it coming. LOL

Quote:

Get a book on bio mechanics, though I don't think it would do you any good
Already have. lol

jackson vile 09-08-2006 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterTS
Did you mean 'dummy'?

dumby dumb stupid
1. dumby
3 up, 2 down


a person who is the opposite of smart

joe wilson is a dumby because he had a chance to date the hottest/nicest girl in school, but he blew it because he is a dumby



A person with no common sense. One who lacks all judgement.:rolleyes:



A noun used to represent dumb or slow people. Also can be used as an adjective.





You have to speak moron with himLOL Sad but true:rolleyes:

Bungalo Bill 09-08-2006 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
dumby dumb stupid
1. dumby
3 up, 2 down


a person who is the opposite of smart

joe wilson is a dumby because he had a chance to date the hottest/nicest girl in school, but he blew it because he is a dumby



A person with no common sense. One who lacks all judgement.:rolleyes:



A noun used to represent dumb or slow people. Also can be used as an adjective.





You have to speak moron with himLOL Sad but true:rolleyes:

Oh more personal attacks? Why? Looks like I got to someone. Becuase your posts make no sense? Because you are clueless about what you want to say? Bring it on!

jackson vile 09-08-2006 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
LOL, prove it!



Oh, now it is personal. I thought you were the one complaining about "personal attacks"? Well, here goes Einstein. Springing from the toes is an important element in a person that rises from an entire kinetic chain. It is clear that professional players use their toes as a spring board to help in the thrust upward. I just proved it with film that the toes are indeed involved. How much they contribute to upward thrust? That is another topic that requires analysis. But they do indeed contirbute to upward thrust in a serve and are important in helping a player send his energy upward. This is something you said isn't happening.



Whether you want to use balls of the feet or not. The truth of the matter is the toes are certainly involved in the serve motion. They provide that extra pushoff from the balls of the feet AND THE TOES. So your information above was false and misleading once again.




In order to balance yourself on the BALLS of the feet the toes must be involved. They have the strength in them that help a player push-off. Simply getting on the balls of your feet does nothing without pressure being applied in the toes!!! Keep it coming. LOL



Already have. lol


This is the most bio-mechanicaly incorrect analysis I have ever heard.

Toes are for stability reason almost exclusively, quit trying to save face.

The balls of feet, heels, toes ect do not produce any force, muscles do.

Have you ever heard of an Olympic trainer of any sort or of a physical trainer of any sort making a program for the toes?

Give me a break!

You don't even know what hip extensors are with out googling it, do you know how ankle flexion is achieved?

Do you know how lift off in a jump is achieved?

Bungalo Bill 09-08-2006 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
This is the most bio-mechanicaly incorrect analysis I have ever heard.

Toes are for stability reason almost exclusively, quit trying to save face.

The balls of feet, heels, toes ect do not produce any force, muscles do.

Have you ever heard of an Olympic trainer of any sort or of a physical trainer of any sort making a program for the toes?

Give me a break!

You don't even know what hip extensors are with out googling it, do you know how ankle flexion is achieved?

Do you know how lift off in a jump is achieved?

Prove it.


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