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Old 06-08-2010, 05:24 AM   #7
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,251

Originally Posted by krosero View Post
A stat I'd like to get is Kramer's success on second serve; but God knows the likelihood of such old matches turning up on video.

That was Robbie Koenig who said that about Federer/Nadal. But at some point I'd like to rewatch the match and look at the second serves in particular. He may be right, but the 2010 Madrid final was the only Fed/Nadal match in which this happened (someone getting higher success on second than on first).

As for Connors, well who knows. In those two matches above he's doing better on second serve, but in other matches (81 W and USO vs. Borg), he's got more typical numbers (higher success on first serve). The key is getting this stat more consistently; most of the matches we've counted stats, we didn't do success on first and second balls (until recently).

I'd like to see that stat for servers like Cash or Edberg, yet we haven't got any (except from the ATP, and you know the problem with those).

Maybe I'll get that stat for Laver-Rosewall at Dunlop, since some of you seem interested in the stats for that match.
It seems that many of the former players raved about how great Kramer's second serve was. I know Kramer credits his strength on second serve in winning his tour with Frank Sedgman. So in general I would tend to believe that Kramer was excellent on second serve.

Thing is how do you gauge the effectiveness of a second serve? It is sort of like the discussion we all had on service return in some thread. Agassi was considered to have a better service return but maybe Michael Chang might have won a greater percentage of service return points.

I have no doubt Kramer had a better overall second serve than Jimmy Connors. But who knows, because Connors was so great with his mobility and groundstrokes, he very well may have won more points by percentage with Kramer on second serve.

I do have some skepticism on some of the old legends about the old time pros. When I did some research on a super famous player in the 1930's I was very surprised on how he didn't even come close to living up to his reputation.

I would love to see information about Jack Kramer just to see if some of the things former greats like Hoad and Sedgman said about him are true. Unfortunately I don't think we will ever get the information.
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