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Old 08-01-2011, 06:24 AM   #27
Datacipher
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
Decipher,

Thanks for the interesting post.

I'm just curious, what are the specs for this generic, "perfect", "one-frame-for-everyone" racquet of yours?
I am guessing you are being purposely obtuse here? I proposed no such thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
It's a brilliant idea! You could save vast sums in R&D and manufacturing.
Ah....quite the sarcasm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
All those pros who don't care about specs (according to you) would be able to play with this one frame. There'd be no more of this misleading "Nadal's racquet of choice" marketing-speak.
I didn't say the pros didn't "care about specs." Again...you are either making things up in an emotional knee-jerk reaction, or purposely making up words that I said. In future, if you wish to have actual discourse, please quote specifically what you are replying to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
Based on individual physique, style, skill, and experience one tool will be more helpful than another.
Correct. That's why I advocate finding a racquet you are comfortable with. There are likely any number quite suitable, and in fact, generally, players begin to "like" what they become accustomed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
I disagree with your assertion that a frame designed for a 75-year old rec player new to the sport will be the same as that designed for a 19 year old who just turned pro. You may think they're the same but I think they would be vary different.
OK, it's obvious you're being purposely obtuse. Of course, I made no such assertion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
I went down your route of "whatever frame will work" when I started playing and bought the first racquet I found at Sports Authority that seemed to be discounted the most (ie high initial price but low sale price). The frame was stiff, super light, and very head heavy, a perfect recipe for tennis elbow. If I tried a full swing I hit long. I couldn't develop a proper stroke because anything more than a badminton "push" sent the ball over the fence. By Thanksgiving I couldn't lift a dinner plate due to arm pain.
Actually, that's not a "perfect recipe" for tennis elbow. The causes of tennis elbow are the subject of a GREAT deal of controversy. Over the last 20 years, theories have been presented suggesting too light, too heavy, too stiff, too flexible, head heavy, head light, all are causes of tennis elbow. All those theories actually developed some followers. I feel the truth is that, tennis elbow has a multitude of causes. This of course, makes sense being a catch-all phrase for tendon pain, and given the variances in human anatomy. First and foremost is technique, but indeed, anecdotal experience suggest certain racquets seem to trigger the condition in players. Of course, ironically, for just about every single racquet-caused experience, there is almost always counter experiences. eg. the prostaff 6.1 classic gave me tennis elbow, it's a killer!!! The prostaff 6.1 classic cured my tennis elbow!!! My old coach Vic Braden once interviewed a surgeon who had operated on cases of tennis elbow many times before, and his take on the situation seemed to be similar...the variety of causes made any isolating any particular cause problematic.

In any case, you were just waxing on about R&D, if you are sure you have the "perfect recipe" for tennis elbow, I urge you to present your data to the manufacturers, and indeed to the tennis world at large!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
That experience it not unlike the TW testing team. Read their reviews and based on frame characteristics you'll see constant references such as "I felt like I could swing hard without fear of over-hitting" or "I needed to restrain my stroke to avoid over-hitting". If what you say is true then there should be no such comments in the TW reviews. Their experienced strokes should be the same for all racquets, right?
Well, there are a number of problems with this assertion (eg. are the TW testing team truly advanced players? Are they over-hitting not because the racquet is no "good" for them, or simply because it's more powerful than the one they usually use? etc etc) HOWEVER, first and foremost, this is why I SAID: find a racquet that is generally comfortable for you. It need not be "perfect" (whatever that is)...and in fact, if I give any of the most advanced TW testers say: any model radical, any model volkl 10, any model pro staff 6.1, any model, a Prince Response, a Prince Graphite, a Pro tour 280, a Rossignol f40, a CTS precision, Mad Raq Boston, and a few weeks of practice, and a 100,000 dollar match to play, they'll reach the same level with any of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
So your advice isn't just wrong it's down right dangerous. It's the sort of advice that condemns noobs to the risk of injury and inhibits their skill development. And I have a perfect example for you.
First, as discussed above, most of the "advice" you are claiming I gave, did not occur. Second, no, though you seem to strongly believe that a "noob" racquet is the "perfect recipe" for tennis elbow, and/or will absolutely prevent improvement, this is untrue. Again, my only advice was to find a racquet that you find comfortable and then play with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
A guy I met recently and who is now a friend recently took up tennis. He started out with a big box noob racquet just like I did. He came to an open session at our club to hit with us. His rocket launcher was impossible to control. It caused arm pain even though he's muscular and cut better than Nadal. He's a natural athlete but was just couldn't hit worth a darn with his rocket launcher.
Seriously? Ugh. Did you know Agassi won a tournament with a 31mm. Donnay widebody? Then ended up switching mid-match to his 19mm Donnay Pro one? Several pros, including a number of male pros played with the Wilson Profile 2.7 at that time. There are countless examples. A good player can adjust to anything. Is it ideal? Well they thought it was at the time, but as I said, I recommend finding something comfortable for each player, one that seems to have about the right level of power. Come on....I promise you Nadal would whip the court clean with that big box noob racquet. Would he prefer it? Probably not, it's probably very different than what he usually uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
Now I will grant one thing. This IS all matters of degrees. For some it's closer to "whatever racquet will work". At the other end of the spectrum are those of us who enjoy the fine details. What's that to you? Why does it make you so angry?
You seem to misunderstand, even though I repeatedly tried to emphasize that it's no skin off my back. I am telling you, the honest truth about your problem, but if you choose to ignore the advice, or just enjoy excessive thought about your equipment, as I said, by all means. IN FACT, I specifically said that if tinkering like this makes one happy, they should continue. It is a relatively benign hobby, except that it may well hold back their actual playing development. I don't know what let you to think there was any anger. Even now, though your repeated claims (ie lies) about what I have allegedly "said" are annoying, I don't feel angry. Just sad. Obviously though, I will not convince you, so I'm only posting this to correct the lies you said about me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyO View Post
week, and a league match once a week when in sea
While I've also received outstanding advice on technique here I prefer real-world hitting and lessons for skill development. Just because YOU are not involved with my on court activities doesn't mean they're not happening. It's really quite rude and arrogant of you to draw the conclusion that because I'm posting technical questions here I'm not developing skills on the court. WOW!!!
Again, I didn't say they weren't happening. If you really want to be honest, maybe you should go back, take a deep breath, and reread my post. I am telling you that this focus is a waste of time and energy, in regards to improving your game. That has nothing to do with your on-court efforts. If improvement is your primary goal, then I certainly hope you are doing those, and I hope this does not come at the expense of the other. You are asserting it does not. That is good.

All the things I have delineated above, which you claimed I said, I did not. If you wish to continue claiming I did, then please just quote the original post, and I will be happy to address or clarify your concerns. Since I doubt you will do that (it's not possible since you were lying when you said that I made those claims). It's probably best to simply acknowledge that you don't think what I said was true.

That is fine. You can think it's total BS, nobody can stop you from thinking that. I any case, it's obvious that my post made you very angry. I was worried about that which is why I kept trying to say in my OP, that if you choose to spend time on this, it's your decision, and that if it makes you happy: "go for it".

I think that if you continue to be as avid a player as you claim, you will eventually improve, and 5, 10, 15 years down the road, you might remember this post. You might also see some wisdom in what I'm saying. If that day ever comes for you, and some way to contact me still exists, please drop me a line. We will probably have a good laugh about it. I wish you well in your efforts.

Finally, let me re-emphasize: I'll be happy to address/discuss/clarify any of the points I have made in this post or the OP, if you would quote them, and then discuss the quote directly!



Last edited by Datacipher : 08-01-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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