Thread: Clay Court GOAT
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:29 AM   #802
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Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
I've already listed Vines record. 3 amateur majors, 5 professional majors, best player in the world as a pro from 1934-1938
None of those are best ever statistics, or anything that makes you the potential GOAT. Many have won alot more amateur majors, alot more pro majors, been the best amateur or pro in the World for longer. Nobody is disputing Vines is a great player (and nobody other than kiki disputes he was much better than Kodes) but he is not a GOAT candidate.

Anyway was he really the best pro in 1937 and 1938. He didnt win ANY of the pro slams, and Hans Nusslein (a great pro player but hardly a historic figure) won 2 of the 3 both years. In 6 years as a pro he won a total of 5 pro majors, less than 1 per years, hardly unwordly dominance (Hans Nusslein won the same number), especialy when he didnt face stars who werent significantly older than him like Perry and Budge until the final years. He took over as the top amateur player for a couple years from men a decade older than him, was overtaken by Crawford, then after losing #1 turned pro and again was on top for a few years vs a bunch of men much older than him, being overtaken again when guys his own age or younger also turned pro.

Also who is rated as best of the 30s. It is always Budge, almost nobody picks Vines as even the best of his own decade.

and his best game was still seen as unbeatable even after Budge overtook him in 1939.
This argument and its meaning is ridiculous. Mary Pierce's best game might have been seen as unbeatable by anyone from 1994-1999, but that doesnt give her unofficial best player of the 90s status. I suppose you will say his best game was unbeatable too in 1933 when others overtook him, he just never brought it, just like in 1939 Budge was better but it means nothing since Vines didnt bring his best game supposably.

He's clearly in the GOAT discussion.
Only in your eyes. Just settle for him being better than Kodes.

You still havent addressed your numerous other non GOAT candidates you listed as GOAT candidates. You dont seem to differentiate between being an all time great and being a GOAT candidate. If there is NOTHING that your career is the best over everyone else is, you arent a GOAT candidate. Which is the case not only with Vines, but King, Seles, Serena, Perry, and many others you listed.

Last edited by NadalAgassi; 05-06-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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