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Old 09-13-2012, 02:36 PM   #30
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,244

Originally Posted by TMF View Post
That's true when Laver or Sampras was considered the greatest during their time. But if someone comes along and surpass that player(eg Fed surpasses Pete) then he deserve to be place ahead.

I don't think it's superficial. If you carefully go through the list from top to bottom, it include players from all different decades, different countries. Of course, countries like USA and AUS has many players on the list because they produces many great players.

I'm sure they know Pancho's accomplishment, and I don't why you guys think they are selling him short. Is it because he was in the old days? If it is, then would they sell Laver short too because he's only 10 years younger than Pancho. Also, Budge was well before Pancho's time and they have him at #6. So I don't think there's any reason for them to be biased against Pancho because he was in the 50s/60s. The same with Evert is placed below Court who was before her time.
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Budge won the 1938 Grand Slam, which is why he was ranked higher by TTC. Had he not won the Grand Slam, he would be ranked much lower, even if he had won the same things overall. Where was Tilden ranked in comparison to Budge? Tilden won 11 amateur majors (when the best players in the world were amateurs), and then won 4 professional majors (having been the first truly great professional tennis player), and he wasn't even able to travel like later generations could.

If Gonzales isn't in the top 5, then they simply haven't looked at the full picture of Gonzales' career, and are perhaps even guilty of ignoring his pre-open era professional career altogether. The mainstream majors were for amateur players only, and they were a stepping stone to getting the best monetary contract and challenging the real best players in the world, who were in the professional ranks. Nearly all the best amateur champions of the 1950s turned professional, and were all beaten by Gonzales in the pros.

Even after Andy Murray won the US Open on Monday, they kept saying that Murray was the first British male winner of a major since Fred Perry in 1936, but Perry played his first professional match in January 1937 and won 2 US Pro titles in Chicago in 1938 and 1941. Perry was certainly a better player after playing against Vines, Nusslein and Budge on a regular basis in the professional game, even though Perry never quite became "the man" like he had been from 1934-1936 in the amateur game.

TMF I believe is complaining about Gonzalez now because a number of posters, myself included consider Gonzalez as potentially the GOAT.
You bring up an excellent point about Fred Perry. The media doesn't even recognize the achievements of the old Pro Tour and the majors they had. Perry was arguably the best player in 1941 and as you wrote, he did win some Pro Majors.
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