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Old 10-02-2012, 07:15 PM   #16
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 609

Originally Posted by treblings View Post
good guess. based on his last post, hes probably in high school
Whereas you are a beacon of maturity.

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi View Post
Records are over a whole career. The reason Hingis has respectable records vs the Williams sisters is she built up huge leads in 1997-1998, began losing the majority of matches from 2000 onwards hence why they had already evened out by the time she left, and then quit without facing them in their best years when the head to head would have swung heavily in their favor. She has a losing record vs Serena even though she didnt play any matches vs Serena once Serena became "Serena" (everyone of their matches were from 97-early 2002 when Hingis reached all 9 of her career slam finals and Serena won 1 of her eventual 15 slams). Their last 3 matches were a 6-3, 6-2 destruction at the U.S Open, a 3 set win for Serena in wicked windy conditions with Serena compiling 66 unforced errors, and a 6-4, 6-0 beatdown in Miami. At that point she was no longer competitive with Serena, and Serena was only getting started. Tell me how do you think she would have fared vs the Serena Slam version of Serena, seeing how their 3 matches just preceding that went, LOL! She has a more clear losing record vs Davenport, and she lost 70% (9 of 13) of their matches from 98-2000, the period both were in their primes together, including a 5 match losing streak at one point. After the 2000 Australian Open where Hingis was crushed again by Davenport she began crying at the trophy presentation and blurted out staring at Lindsay "I dont know to play you." The respectable H2H (trailing 11-14) is again based on her dominance in 97 when Lindsay was not a grand slam caliber player. The Williams hit as hard and serve harder than Lindsay and are twice as mobile, and Henin and Clijsters hit almost as hard as Lindsay are also twice as mobile, so that is what a Hingis who had already plateaued and stoped improving would have faced had she continued on, and we see how much trouble she had with prime Lindsay. Not an idication of the future, but still worth noting, she has a 2-7 record vs Graf, and peak Hingis lost 2 of 3 matches to 30 year old nearly retired Graf who was a shadow of her old self in late 98-99. She lost 4 matches in a row to Capriati who isnt even one of the best power players. The only great power player she has a winning record against is Venus, but with almost every win coming before 2000, when Venus began winning slams, and Seles but Seles was an early bloomer who was already a has been who would never win another slam again by the time she and Hingis began playing.

At the time she retired in late 2002 she was no longer ranked in the top 10, had not won a slam in almost 4 years, had lost her last 3 matches to Serena, her last 4 matches to Capriati, 4 of her last 5 matches with Venus. In her last year on tour she got spanked in one sided defeats to B level power players Hantuchova, Dokic, Myskina, Petrova, and Dementieva, in addition to her slew of losses to the really big hitters. Was she going to win another slam ever again in the future, when she hadnt in years already, and when the WTA was soon to get alot tougher with Serena becoming a real champion, and Henin, Clijsters, and Sharapova all emerging? The answer is a pretty obvious one and why she retired. Why exactly do you think she retired, since she was still at the top of the womens game?

That isnt to diss Hingis who I consider a great talent but the boom in power tennis ended her career. What do you propose did it if not. Cocaine?
She said that her inability to keep up her fitness was the main reason. In the modern era she was forced to retrieve more balls than Jankovic. Yes she had nagging injuries that made it difficult to actually have a chance to survive, hence she quit.

I personally think that she was lucky to dominate tennis the way she did towards the end of the 90s, but the was also unlucky to have to deal with some of the strongest eras ever. (early 2000s) In a "regular era" (post 2003 until 2008/2009) she would win more than in the early 2000s, but less than in the late 90s. Hell, you KNOW she made 3 major finals after the trun of the millenium.

What makes me question the "power tennis ended Hingis" theory is the fact that with a little more steel, she would be sitting on 2 more slams (99 RG, 02 AO) and considering that Davenport played poorly in the final, probably the USO 00 as well. Now I know that mental toughness is important as well and cannot be ignored, however, if she was capable of putting herself in these positions in the first place, how much credibitly does your claim have? I mean for God's sake, when has Venus ever played better than 2000-2001? (especially during that winning streak in 2000) Hingis was capable of putting Venus on the ropes, even at her best. Clearly she had the tools to cause damage somehow, even when outgunned. Her problem was MENTAL weakness around that time (probably because of the RG debacle) not PHYSICAL weakness.

And make no mistake: I am not only bragging about NEAR victories here. She DID beat Venus in a thriller in the USO 99 (and even if not at her peak, she was still better than in 97) Then there was that great match in that Grand Slam Cup. (what an ice rink) Of course her demolition of Venus in the semis of the AO in 2001 also happened. While it is generally known that Venus wasn't playing well in that match, that is also eye opening: if playing below your standard makes you this vulnerable to Hingis, I wonder how often she would lose to Hingis AFTER 2003, when she became a lot more inconsistent.

Of course there is no proof that she would be competitive with Serena at her peak, but on the other hand, who was? Even Venus lost 4 straight grand slam finals against her. Capriati was the only one who made her look mortal. (and Henin on clay) Hingis losing to her wouldn't mean she couldn't handle power tennis. (or else, Venus could also not handle the power of the modern era ) Serena would beat Hingis because she was BETTER not because she hit harder.

I think that with a tougher mind and with normal competition, there's no way that she doesn't win slams after 2003, when tennis started to become a little less crazy. Serena moving a lot worse, Venus not playing as well etc, that would be a weaker, but not weak era that would see Hingis win a lot in the world of power tennis. It is just an inferior version of it though.
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