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Old 10-15-2012, 08:53 AM   #10
corners
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJack View Post
Hi All,

I really like the spin potential of Gut / MSV Co-Focus. Sticking with the low inter string friction concept, any reccos for a slippery poly that is softer than Co-Focus?

I've cross referenced the string friction tool [1] with string stiffness, this is what jumps out at me so far:

( 086.3 ) …. ( 0.103 ) …. Pacific Prime 16
( 089.2 ) …. ( 0.180 ) …. Pacific Classic 16
( 092.6 ) …. ( 0.173 ) …. Wilson Natural 17
( 097.7 ) …. ( 0.147 ) …. Babolat VS Team 17 (1.25)
( 099.4 ) …. ( 0.245 ) …. Wilson Natural 16
( 104.6 ) …. ( 0.298 ) …. Klip Legend Uncoated 16
( 101.7 ) …. ( 0.124 ) …. VS Natural ThermoGut 16 Touch
( 105.2 ) …. ( 0.194 ) …. Klip Armour Pro 16

( 118.3 ) …. ( 0.088 ) …. Ashaway MonoGut 16 … Nylon/Zyex
( 161.2 ) …. ( 0.085 ) …. Volk Gripper 17 … Nylon
( 166.3 ) …. ( 0.098 ) …. Topspin Cyber Flash 17L … Poly
( 171.5 ) …. ( 0.079 ) …. Gosen Compositemaster II 16 … Nylon
( 176.0) ….. (0.089 ) …. Head FXP Power 17 … Nylon
( 178.9 ) …. ( 0.080 ) …. Gosen Powermaster II 16 … Nylon
( 181.2 ) …. ( 0.088 ) …. Gosen Nanosilver 17
( 182.9 ) …. ( 0.075 ) …. Gosen Powermaster I 16 … Nylon
( 188.0 ) …. ( 0.081 ) …. Klip Synthetic Gut 16 … Nylon
( 191.5 ) …. ( 0.083 ) …. Big Hitter Black 7 17 … Poly
( 192.6 ) …. ( 0.112 ) …. Polyfibre Poly Hitec 18
( 193.2 ) …. ( 0.071 ) …. Gosen Polyon Polybreak 18 … Poly
( 200.6 ) …. ( 0.097 ) …. Kirschbaum Pro Line II 18

( 213.2 ) …. ( 0.089 ) …. MSV Co-Focus 16L … Poly

There must be somebody out there who's followed the same path? Looking for low inter string friction, but still arm friendly? What I'm seeing so far, (and don't know what to make of it) is the number of low friction, low stiffness nylons.

[1]
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...OFreporter.php

- Jack
One thing to note is that when comparing the same string model, the stiffness decreases sharply as you go down in gauge while the CoF stays about the same. This makes sense as the CoF is a function of the string material or string coating material and is independent of surface area. (Surface shape may be another story.)

I've compared various models in different gauges and based on this I would estimate that Co-Focus 18 has stiffness of around 190 and CoF of .097.

Other copoly strings to look at:

Solinco Revolution 18 (estimated): (205) .... (0.072)

Gosen Sidewinder (shaped string): (181) ... (0.09)

This one is shaped, so might slice the gut mains, but is probably the most flexible copoly on the market. It also loses much less tension than the others, so the stiffness number is actually a bit deceiving: it's actually less stiff than the 181 number indicates! (I want to try this one in a full bed at low tension.)

Gosen Polymaster II (flat string with 1.0 mm cross-section, equivalent to 20 gauge): (207) ... (0.074)

The Polymasters remind me of the poster Mokongs method of gluing bits of aluminum to the gut mains at the intersections, which he said made them slide and snapback essentially forever:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showp...6&postcount=21

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=246634

Studies have shown that it's notching of the mains that disables the snapback mechanism the most. If you can stop that you should be able to get maximum playable life and value out of your gut mains/copoly setups. There is the hypothesis that Don't Let it Bounce mentioned - that notched guts exude a natural oil that actually helps them slide freely on copoly crosses - and I think that that probably happens, but the CoF numbers we have for gut/copoly setups are taken prior to notching, so if we can avoid notching altogether it might be better on balance, even if we miss out on this self-lubricating function.


Another thing to consider is that all of these stiffness numbers are taken post-tension loss. The nylons lose much less tension than the copolys, so the numbers make the copolys look pretty soft. But I believe TWU's procedure for tension loss measurement is too aggressive. Basically, their tests make the copolys lose more tension than they would in the real world - basically they are testing them "dead" (although I don't believe strings go dead in the way people believe them to). Adjusting for that, the copolys are probably about 10-15% stiffer than they appear in comparison to the nylons.

In my opinion, by the numbers, Ashaway Zyex Monogut (now called Monogut ZX) has the most promise as a non-poly cross option. It's almost as flexible as natural gut and like gut does not increase in stiffness when strung at higher tensions. Therefore, a gut/Monogut ZX hybrid could be strung at higher tensions and still be comfy. Since gut returns more energy at higher tension (maxing out around 60 pounds), a high-tension hybrid with this cross could give fabulous power and snapback. But I haven't had a chance to try it out, so don't listen to me.

Last edited by corners : 10-15-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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