Originally Posted by Goosehead
you are just imagining stuff.."evert probably thisandthatblahblah ??"..you dont know,
two goats x and y meet in semi, but so what because the loser if they had won would lose the final ?..you dont know that.
the point remains that they both had 18 majors and were direct rivals in sf f of majors for years and years.
I am not imagining anything. Of course one cant guarantee Evert or Navratilova not winning the title all 8 times each lost in the semis, just as we cant guarantee them winning the title all 14 combined times they lost to one another in the finals. What we can safely believe though is that is LIKELY the vast majority of those 8 times they lost in the semis the losing semifinalist would have lost in the finals, and the vast majority of the 14 times they lost in the finals to one another the other would have won the title otherwise. I am pointing out the obvious, those periods they were playing in the semis there is a reason they were playing in the semis, one (or both) was not ranked in the top 2 in the World, and as that player ranked 3rd or often lower those times was the one usually losing in the semis, they were not the likely winner over the other higher ranked finalist even without the other thre. If you break down the 8 times one lost to the other in the semis, Navratilova or Evert would have been the underdog in all 8 finals had they won.
1975 U.S Open- Goolagong would have been heavy favorite over nowhere near prime Navratilova in final on clay.
1976 Wimbledon- Peak Goolagong would have again been heavy favorite over fat and still underachieving Navratilova.
1980 Wimbledon- Slumping and overweight Navratilova likely loses to Austin or Goolagong, or based on her late 1980 results a slew of other possible opponents pending her draw.
1981 U.S Open- Evert would have had decent chance vs Austin in final, although Tracy led her 9-4 from 79-81 and had spanked her in Canada recently.
1987 French/1987 Wimbledon/1988 Wimbledon- Graf was waiting in all the finals for aging Evert all 3 times, forget it (Evert's last ever win over Graf was early 86 before Graf had even won her first pro tournament).
1988 Australian- Graf was waiting in finals for aging/slumping Navratilova on slow bouncy hard courts. Again forget it.
The only one either had an even decent shot of winning without the other is Evert at the 81 U.S Open.
However really that isnt important to my point either. Since even if we count all the semifinal and final meetings we still have Navratilova beating Evert in 14 and Evert only Navratilova in 8, almost double for Navratilova beating Evert once again, so even someone delusional enough to believe most of the times they were losing in the semis they were going to win the title (despite that even the winning semifinalist who was generally the much stronger of the two at the given time of those semifinal meetings, 5 times out of those 8 went on to lose the final), Navratilova still denied Evert much more than vice versa, and had the clear upper hand in slams over Evert. Hence why Navratilova is rated multiple spots above Evert by so many people.
Of course Evert's amazing career deserves huge respect, but losing 13 times in a row to Navratilova and going 4-10 vs Navratilova in slam finals, is not going to be easily erased from peoples minds when they determine who was the better player. Furthermore many believe Navratilova is better than Graf, and most believe she is better than Court, while very few now believe Evert is better than Graf, and many dont even believe she was better than Court, so put that all together and naturally they will be often ranked 2-3 places apart atleast. People also remember Navratilova well into her 30s pushing Graf hard, and sometimes beating her. They also note Navratilova leading Graf 4-1 at the U.S Open, their most neutral possible meeting ground, despite Navratilova being 29 or older for 4 of those 5 meetings, she still won 4 of the 5 meetings, which doesnt look good at all for Graf in the comparision to Navratilova. Hence why many still think she is better despite Graf surpassing her singles record in most respects. By contrast they remember an aging Evert losing to Graf 8 times in a row and generally making virtually no impact at all (only 1 set won) once 16 year old Graf won her first tournament while Graf was only starting to head towards the start of her prime. Even much inferior players like Virginia Wade managed to beat Evert at an older age than Evert even once could manage to beat young Graf. So with Graf surpassing Evert's singles record as she also had Navratilova's, there is nothing about the Graf vs Evert confrontations which would help squeeze Evert about Graf despite Graf's greater slam count and general superior figures, the way Navratilova's meetings with Graf would, already putting a wedge between them in many lists, before even getting into the other players. On top of all that Navratilova's doubles record pulling her further ahead of Evert (and others like Graf who also did very little in doubles) to those who value doubles.