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Old 12-14-2012, 11:55 AM   #1528
Talk Tennis Guru
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Weak era
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Originally Posted by pc1 View Post
Several times and every time at the end of the year so I can't necessarily judge normal 100% in shape level of year.

Also when you judge several times that still a very small sample. Let's say I saw two Nadal/Federer red clay matches and one was the 2008 French final. If that's the case Federer wouldn't look too good. But I also in a larger sample size know Federer's more competitive on red clay than that.

You know what's amazing about all this. All of this "to do" is that I just wondered what Nadal's general level of play indoors if he's totally healthy. After all he is Nadal and you would figure he would play at a high level indoor.

Amazing. I think some people are a little sensitive.

Let's give another example, we all know Federer won Wimbledon last year over Murray on grass. We also know one month later Murray beat Federer easily to win the Olympics also at Wimbledon. If someone just watched that latter match you would think Federer wasn't nearly at the level of Murray on grass. However I also know that Federer may have been worn out by his long match against del Potro previously so you give Federer the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was off a bit.

I'll repeat myself, I was basically asking a question. It's really ridiculous to my mind that this causes such a reaction. I see reactions from TMF (of course), abmk and others when one of them could have just given me a link with some information posted by them. That would be end of story.

And TMF, did you read that I did write that Federer's smooth style allows him to play well at the end of the year? Read it again.

My thought was this, Nadal's a great player, one of the all time greats. With his great strokes you figure he should give anyone on any surface a tough batte even Federer. So I was wondering why he didn't give Federer much of a fight at the WTF. Everyone makes it sounds as though I'm attacking Federer. Read the post again. There were no attacks, simply wondering.

Overreaction here on a minor statement.

It's not worth writing about that nonsense anymore.

I've seen some of you ask some questions that I've answered in the past. Do I question why the person who asks the question doesn't know the answer? Of course not and yet someone assumes that by watching two matches indoors that I know the average level of play indoors between the two. Players are human and level of play varies.
I have no beef with your post(s) on the issue, as I said indoor season isn't what it used to be, tennis season is structured differently these days and that might be one of the reasons Nadal's numbers aren't somewhat better indoors and/or that you weren't informed enough about his performance indoors in general and against Fed.

Urban's post on the other hand was one of the most biased posts I've ever read on TW, Rafa didn't try hard at WTF because of DC (even though Spain wasn't even in the final in 3 out of 4 losses against Fed), Novak only tried this year (even though he also won it in 2008 ), Fed won because all other top pros showed up solely to collect their paychecks, Nadal is Fed's equal indoors because he barely scraped past Ljubicic in Madrid and won some exos against Fed indoors (not even the kind of exos in which the winner is paid more but basically hit and giggle stuff) etc.

Seriously, I doubt even the most die hard Nadal fans would argue he's Fed's equal indoors (obviously considering they posses all the relevant data), I'm not talking about saying Nadal's better on slow outdoor HC (because he leads their H2H on that surface) or on grass (because he beat him in 2008 Wimbledon final and Fed won his Wimbledons in supposedly weak era), those are biased viewpoints but they atleast have something going for them (even if I disagree with logic behind those assertions) but once you have all the data comparing Nadal and Fed indoors is as straightforward as it can possibly be (short of Fed double bageling Nadal in their every indoor meeting or something and I doubt even that would have been enough).

You all look down upon TMF but seriously, I've yet to see him argue that Fed is Nadal's equal on clay or something.
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