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Old 12-25-2012, 07:22 PM   #127
veroniquem
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Originally Posted by NadalAgassi View Post
Yes he is number 1 right now, yet there is at thread ongoing right now where it seems most posters dont even think he is an all time great (eg top 30 all time, and I actually argued I did think he was a bottom end 5th tier all time great, but most disagreed with me and even called me a ********* for arguing he was), while Federer and Nadal are firmly established as top 5 players all time. So in terms of his career and place in the grand scheme of the game, he still has a long way to go to make any sort of legacy for himself.
Interesting discussion. I think Djoko will be an all time great when everything is said and done (bar unpredictable career threatening injury). The stats seem encouraging, certainly for one of the best in open era. Of course, he's nowhere near Fed and Rafa at the moment, still, there aren't that many players who got more than 4 slams and 2 consecutive year ends at #1 and only all time greats have had a season as spectacular as his 2011 one (at least in open era). Some stats for open era:
Overall winning %: Nadal #2 with 82.7, Fed #5 with 81.6, Djoko #8: 79.2
Indoor: Fed #5: 80.3, Djoko #14: 72.4, Nadal # 46: 64.2
Outdoor: Nadal #1: 85.1, Fed #3: 82.1, Djoko #6: 81.0
Clay: Nadal #1: 93.0 (!), Fed #9: 77.1, Djoko # 13: 76.7
Grass: Fed #1: 87.3, Nadal #9: 80.6, Djoko #16: 77.0
Hard: Fed #1: 83.0, Djoko # 6: 80.9, Nadal #13: 76.5 (note that on hard, Djoko's stat is better than both Sampras and Agassi...)
slams: Nadal #2: 87.7, Fed #3: 87.0, Djoko # 6: 83.2 (there again Djoko is in front of guys like Lendl, Connors and jMac)
masters (since 1990): Nadal #1: 83.0, Djoko #2: 78.9, Fed #3: 77.5


I don't see any indication there that Djoko is not in the same ballpark as the very best in open era. He is top 8 or better in 5 out of 8 categories, top 15 in everything but grass. If anything, the only stat that doesn't seem to belong to a top player is Rafa's indoor one. Thankfully for Rafa, indoor has become pretty marginal as a surface. Some more:
Titles: Fed #4: 76, Nadal #11: 50, Djoko #16: 34
Only 14 players have won 5 slams or more in open era (and only 12 have won at least 3 out of the 4)
Weeks at #1: Fed is #1, Nadal is #7 and Djoko is # 11 (but guaranteed to pass Edberg soon)
Only 10 players have had more than 1 year end at #1, 9 of whom had consecutive year ends at #1, the exception being Nadal:
Connors: 1974-78
Borg: 1979-80
McEnroe: 1981-84
Lendl: 1985-87
Edberg: 1990-91
Sampras: 1993-98
Hewitt: 2001-02
Federer: 2004-07
Djokovic: 2011- ?

Given that Djoko is about 6 years younger than Fed and Nadal was exceptionally precocious, it seems reasonable to expect Novak's stats to keep improving in the near future but they're already pretty decent.
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