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Old 02-18-2013, 07:20 PM   #236
krosero
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abmk View Post
well, the receiver being forced into error when a RoS is made on a medium-tough serve is one scenario .... but the same scenario is applicable on other kind of serves ....

it could be that on a medium to tough serve, the return is 'neutral' and ensuing rally may result in a UE ..

either way, I really don't think there is a 'significant' difference in those sort of returns ..
A number of things could happen when a tough serve is barely returned. The return could land softly but so deep that a neutral rally ensues. Or it could land in such a way that the server gets a chance to rip the floater for a winner or a forced error. Or the return could surprise the server and put him off balance, making it more likely that the receiver will rip a winner or force an error.

I don't know which of those scenarios is really more applicable to the kind of serves which we think Murray returned successfully and Djokovic unsuccessfully. Not sure we can go any further with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abmk View Post
one thing that you are probably neglecting is that when someone returns so many of those first serves, it puts quite a bit of pressure of the server; who'd most probably be forced to go for more and commit more UEs ....
This is different from the scenario we've been talking about. We've been debating your initial suggestion that because Murray got a great number of serves back in play, there were more rallies in the final compared to the SF -- hence more UE's and lower AM's.

What you're suggesting here is simply that good play by one opponent can result in poorer play by the other. That's not controversial at all; I'd agree with that. If the server, finding his serves always popping back at him, starts to go for too much and makes more UE's, his AM will go down; while the receiver's AM will go up, since he's making so few UE's on the return.

But that's different from the claim that both players' AM's are going down due to the receiver putting so many serves back in play. That IS debatable, because it means that AM's can go down even when quality of play (in this case, quality of returning) goes up. That's very different from merely observing that one guy's good play can make the other guy fall into errors.

Good to see you back.
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