Originally Posted by JRstriker12
It may not kick above the shoulder every time, but at least I know the spin will bring it in. Much more reliable than my flat serve.
Guess it's a matter of definition then.
When I think "kicker", I think "shoots up high off the court".
Otherwise, it's just a serve with some top on it.
Agree that 2nd serves should always have some top or top/slice - pretty much the norm at 3.5 or so and above.
But top is not the same as kick, at least for me.