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Old 03-03-2013, 08:06 PM   #32
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,015

Originally Posted by timnz View Post
But grass isn't even - it is 2 to Federer 1 to Nadal.

Clay - Nadal
Outdoor Hard - Nadal
Indoor Hard - Federer
Grass - Federer

So it is two surfaces/conditions all. So not at all sure why you say Rafa overall owns him. One should never talk about head to head without reference to surface. If Nadal wins 10 more Clay matchups - it is irrelevant - we all know who is the better clay court player (by the way - who isn't worse than Nadal on clay?).

So no owning at all. If the head to head had been played over an even proportion of surfaces/conditions - then I think Federer would be slightly ahead or at least they would be pretty much even.

If you object, please reflect on this question first.Would the Borg/McEnroe head to head be at 7 all still, if they had played the majority of their matches on clay?
I'm not discussing Borg and McEnroe, I'm disucssing Nadal and Federer.

Now as for your grass h2h point. Fed does lead the surface h2h, but it's not like he dominates Nadal on that surface it is 1 extra win and 2 of their 3 grass meetings were very close. That's why I said it's quite even. If Federer had turned up to the WIM final in 2010 and 2011 Nadal would've beat him. Fed was lucky that Nadal was able to make it to Wimbledon final in 2006 so that he could beat a barely 20 Rafa whilst he was in his peak on his favorite surface. That 2006 final win doesn't really prove anything considering Nadal had played something like only 5 grass court matches prior to that tournament.

As for the HC meetings, if we include indoor and outdoor, they have met on a HC 11 times compared to 14 clay meetings. Quite even, yet it is NOWHERE near the dominance Nadal has on clay. Collectively it is 6-5 to Federer but if we isolate indoor and outdoor it's quite obvious that Fed only dominates indoor meetings and outdoor belongs to Nadal. This is the slam conditions (normally) they are outdoor HC and Nadal leads Fed 5-2, it's not even close. Not to mention in the majors Nadal leads 2-0. I recall so many ****s dismissing Murray's h2h with Fed because of Fed owning Muzza at the majors, well Fed's 6-5 doesn't count for much when you consider Nadal has owned him in HC major meetings.

Nadal has beat Fed in 3/4 slams, Fed has beat Nadal in 1/4 slams, and the record is 8-2 to say that isn't dominance at all is ridiculous. Nadal has owned him, if you ask Federer himself which opponent he'd least want to meet in any major he'll tell you Nadal before you even finish asking the question.
"Nadal is a good example of an counter puncher" - RF-18
"Cilic has huge serve too, so that gave Karlovic extra confidence" - jg153040

Last edited by The_Order; 03-03-2013 at 08:10 PM.
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