Fat Boy, here's the problem. You and I probably have completely different ideas of what a full western is. You do it by thumb, but I was taught by John Yandell based on base knuckle index finger and the heel pad of your hand. That still confuses me though, and my other way is by where the index and thumb meet, and by what bevel that rests on. Now Yandell told me that Robredo uses the same grip as Berasategui and Bruguera used, and he showed it to me, and I was my definition and his of a full western. I can hit with that full western, even take low balls by just going with super spin and arm whip.
Basically, the ultimate problem is the actual definition of what the grips are, and you have to see them in person to fully understand.