Another Instance Of Officiating Error?

[Cindysphinx]

This tale comes from an episode at Districts. I didn't see it, but a spectator told me about it.

Player A hit a lob that was sailing well out. As soon as she hit it, she made a sound expressing frustration ("Aaaack!").

Opponent Player B did not catch the ball, and it bounced well outside the court. Player B did not play the ball. Player B did not make an audible or visual out call.

The official monitoring that court awarded the point to Player A. The explanation given was that the Code requires players to make an audible or visual out call.

That ruling cannot possibly be right, can it? I don't think all Code violations are automatic loss of point. Shouldn't the official warn Player B to make audible calls, and then only if it seems to be contributing to a problem of some sort?

[kylebarendrick]

Sounds like an extreme application of "if you don't call it out, then it is in". That's one reason why I always at least do a quick "out" hand signal no matter how far out the ball is.

If I was player A in this situation, I'd have probably donated the next point.

[rjw]

Originally Posted by kylebarendrick

Sounds like an extreme application of "if you don't call it out, then it is in". That's one reason why I always at least do a quick "out" hand signal no matter how far out the ball is.

If I was player A in this situation, I'd have probably donated the next point.

I'm with you on this....I would have donated the next point. Hopefully it didn't happen at a crucial part of a match.

[Coach Carter]

Originally Posted by kylebarendrick

Sounds like an extreme application of "if you don't call it out, then it is in". That's one reason why I always at least do a quick "out" hand signal no matter how far out the ball is.

If I was player A in this situation, I'd have probably donated the next point.

if I had been player B...you mispelled it...I would have detonated on the next point. I would have exploded...

[NoQuarter]

Wow...that's a tough one....but Player B should have made a call. I can't say that it should have been a point penalty....but Player B probably won't make that mistake again. I have been going over this with my Wife and her team mates all year (this is their first year in league). I'll be playing with them and they will hit one over the fence and I will make the Out call....they say something like "Thanks Captain Obvious"....then I have to explain to them that if I did not make that call, then it is their point.

[Cindysphinx]

But the Code doesn't say if you fail to make a call the point goes to the opponent. It could say that, but it doesn't.

I'd hate to see roving officials start to impose point penalties for everything they see that isn't strictly according to the Code.

I mean, if the server fails to announce the score before serving, is that also loss of point?

[Nellie]

I think that is a terrible call - the ITF rule 24 say that a player loses the point when the ball lands out. There is no ambiguity. The Code (which operate under the rules) paragraph 15 says you are "entitled" to an prompt audible/visible call, but the paragraph 13 of the Code also, mentions that opponents "should" call their own shots out when obvious.

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by Nellie

I think that is a terrible call - the ITF rule 24 say that a player loses the point when the ball lands out. There is no ambiguity. The Code (which operate under the rules) paragraph 15 says you are "entitled" to an prompt audible/visible call, but the paragraph 13 of the Code also, mentions that opponents "should" call their own shots out when obvious.

Code 13 and code 15 are not addressing the same topic. 13 is referring to a player calling their own shots out while 15 is referring to calling an opponent's shots out.

I do agree with you that this is a terrible call by the official. The remedy for not getting something to which you are entitled during a point is not necessarily for the other party to lose the point.

[Douggo]

I'd guess the prevailing logic here is not that the point is awarded to player A for player B's lack of call. Rather, for the failure of player B to return a shot that was assumed in by virtue of having not been called out.

[andfor]

Imo This is not a judgement call and should be appealed to the Tournament Referee for a ruling.

JLyon?

[JLyon]

Originally Posted by andfor

Imo This is not a judgement call and should be appealed to the Tournament Referee for a ruling.

JLyon?

To be honest I am calling a little BS on this story or it is exaggerated since it is coming as a second hand story.
There has to be more to the story, such as did the opponent protest the call, a roving official unless called to court should not be making rulings unless there is a clear mistake such as a clear line-call mistake.

If the ball was obviously out the only thing an official should do is remind the players to make and audible call or a universal hand signal to clarify that the ball was out.

Just can not see a certified official making this type of call, but I would call for the tournament referee and ask about the ruling, there is no dispute on fact I assume that both players agreed the ball was out and the player did not make an audible call, but come on this is league tennis you sound more like an ***** if you call an obvious out ball out, it is not juniors.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by JLyon

To be honest I am calling a little BS on this story or it is exaggerated since it is coming as a second hand story.
There has to be more to the story, such as did the opponent protest the call, a roving official unless called to court should not be making rulings unless there is a clear mistake such as a clear line-call mistake.

If the ball was obviously out the only thing an official should do is remind the players to make and audible call or a universal hand signal to clarify that the ball was out.

Just can not see a certified official making this type of call, but I would call for the tournament referee and ask about the ruling, there is no dispute on fact I assume that both players agreed the ball was out and the player did not make an audible call, but come on this is league tennis you sound more like an ***** if you call an obvious out ball out, it is not juniors.

Ditto, I can't believe this thread has any legs left.

[Maui19]

Wow. I often don't call or signal an opponents ball that is clearly out (like several feet long/wide, or blasted into the fence). I feel like that is rubbing it in. However maybe I should make a hand signal regardless of how ridiculously out a ball is.

I also think Cindy asks a good question about officials awarding a point for code violations where the rules don't specify a penalty.

[Douggo]

Originally Posted by Maui19

Wow. I often don't call or signal an opponents ball that is clearly out (like several feet long/wide, or blasted into the fence). I feel like that is rubbing it in. However maybe I should make a hand signal regardless of how ridiculously out a ball is.

I also think Cindy asks a good question about officials awarding a point for code violations where the rules don't specify a penalty.

See my post above. I think if you don't call the ball out, then it's in. So you lose the point when the ball has bounced twice. Not a penalty.

That said, I'm like everybody else. If it's way out, I assume my opponent has seen it out, and I don't call it.

Oh, and player A, in the spirit of getting the call right, should not have accepted the point. I would assume that's part of the Code.

[JLyon]

Originally Posted by Douggo

See my post above. I think if you don't call the ball out, then it's in. So you lose the point when the ball has bounced twice. Not a penalty.

That said, I'm like everybody else. If it's way out, I assume my opponent has seen it out, and I don't call it.

Oh, and player A, in the spirit of getting the call right, should not have accepted the point. I would assume that's part of the Code.

It is actually against the rules to not accept the penalty or point from the official.

[jswinf]

Originally Posted by Douggo

I'd guess the prevailing logic here is not that the point is awarded to player A for player B's lack of call. Rather, for the failure of player A to return a shot that was assumed in by virtue of having not been called out.

Originally Posted by Douggo

See my post above. I think if you don't call the ball out, then it's in. So you lose the point when the ball has bounced twice. Not a penalty.

The thing about your post above is that I'm pretty sure you meant "the failure of player B to return a shot..." This stuff is confusing enough.

[Douggo]

Originally Posted by jswinf

The thing about your post above is that I'm pretty sure you meant "the failure of player B to return a shot..." This stuff is confusing enough.

You're right. I'll fix it. Thanks.

[NoQuarter]

Originally Posted by Maui19

Wow. I often don't call or signal an opponents ball that is clearly out (like several feet long/wide, or blasted into the fence). I feel like that is rubbing it in. However maybe I should make a hand signal regardless of how ridiculously out a ball is.

I also think Cindy asks a good question about officials awarding a point for code violations where the rules don't specify a penalty.

I feel the same way...about rubbing it in (see my earlier post about comments I receive). But if you don't then you run into people that will say, "I am entitled to a call".

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter

I feel the same way...about rubbing it in (see my earlier post about comments I receive). But if you don't then you run into people that will say, "I am entitled to a call".

Right. They're "entitled to a call." That doesn't mean they are entitled to a point.

I mean, unless the umpire said, "Player B, what is your call?" and Player B refused to make one, I can't think of an argument for loss of point.

[Douggo]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Right. They're "entitled to a call." That doesn't mean they are entitled to a point.

I mean, unless the umpire said, "Player B, what is your call?" and Player B refused to make one, I can't think of an argument for loss of point.

I would assume as player B, you don't have the luxury of calling a ball out after it has bounced twice on your side.