Does anyone find Murray's H2H vs Rafa a little surprising?

[kragster]

I find that Murray's 5-13 H2H vs Rafa is somewhat surprising given that out of the 18 matches only 4 were on clay ( 3 grass, 11 HC). To compare, even prior to his amazing 2011 run, Djokovic led the hard court H2H vs Nadal even when he trailed by a large margin overall. I am not saying Murray should lead this H2H but I think he should get a lot closer than 5-13.

Murray has done much better vs Fed and Djokovic even if you discount the recent gains in 2012. Logically it would seem that Murray's game should match up well vs Nadals much better than it does vs Fed.

Thoughts?

[90's Clay]

Not really... Anything Murray can do, Nadal can do it 5 times better.. Rafa also has the nerves of steel while Murray 9 times out of 10 buckles under the pressure of big matches. Murray's main reason for a h2h over Roger (non slams mind you) is the fact that Fed is getting old.

Djoker-Murray is interesting. But generally Djoker is the victor there.

[Mainad]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Murray's main reason for a h2h over Roger (non slams mind you) is the fact that Fed is getting old.

Fed must have been getting old ever since 2006 then.

[Prisoner of Birth]

Originally Posted by Mainad

Fed must have been getting old ever since 2006 then.

He's been getting older since 1981.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth

He's been getting older since 1981.

You will never be as young as you are right now. You will always get older. It's depressing when you think of it like that.

[Prisoner of Birth]

Originally Posted by Mustard

You will never be as young as you are right now. You will always get older. It's depressing when you think of it like that.

Isn't that the beauty of it?

[Legend of Borg]

Originally Posted by Mustard

You will never be as young as you are right now. You will always get older. It's depressing when you think of it like that.

So you should make it a goal to age like fine wine.

[Mainad]

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth

He's been getting older since 1981.

True. But Murray didn't start beating him until 2006.

[NadalAgassi]

Not really. People underrate how great a grass court player Nadal is. By far the 2nd best of this era behind Federer, much superior to Djokovic or Murray career wise at this point. So Nadal winning all the clay and all the grass meetings doesnt surprise me much. Hard courts Nadal is also underrated and is atleast on par with Murray career wise, so again not surprised he could win half and even slightly lead the H2H on hards.

Anyway as others have said there isnt anything that would logically make Murray a tough matchup for Nadal. Nadal mostly has problems with guys who can overpower him.

[DRII]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Not really. People underrate how great a grass court player Nadal is. By far the 2nd best of this era behind Federer, much superior to Djokovic or Murray career wise at this point. So Nadal winning all the clay and all the grass meetings doesnt surprise me much. Hard courts Nadal is also underrated and is atleast on par with Murray career wise, so again not surprised he could win half and even slightly lead the H2H on hards.

Anyway as others have said there isnt anything that would logically make Murray a tough matchup for Nadal. Nadal mostly has problems with guys who can overpower him.

I agree. Nadal is the only player that plays defense better than Murray, Nole matches him in defense.

Murray knows in order to beat Nadal he must be very offensive almost all the time. Against Nole I think Murray feels he can play his natural game but has to execute very well. Against Nadal Murray feels he can't play his natural game...

[MSK]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Not really... Anything Murray can do, Nadal can do it 5 times better.. Rafa also has the nerves of steel while Murray 9 times out of 10 buckles under the pressure of big matches. Murray's main reason for a h2h over Roger (non slams mind you) is the fact that Fed is getting old.

Djoker-Murray is interesting. But generally Djoker is the victor there.

Yeah Murray wasn't leading 6-2 or anything when Old man Fed, wasn't quite so old.... quit your pish excuses Murrays the man

[90's Clay]

Originally Posted by MSK

Yeah Murray wasn't leading 6-2 or anything when Old man Fed, wasn't quite so old.... quit your pish excuses Murrays the man

Wake me up when Murray beats Fed at a slam.. Until then... Forget it..

Hell the main reasons Murray has won much of ANYTHING this year:

1. Fed aging
2. Nadal out injured

Simple truth

[Mainad]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Hell the main reasons Murray has won much of ANYTHING this year:

1. Fed aging

Lol...so Fed aged badly in the 4 weeks between the Wimbledon and Olympic finals did he?

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

2. Nadal out injured

Simple truth

Simple conjecture. Murray could well have beaten Nadal at USO this year. He did it once before when he was a much lesser player than he is now!

[NadalAgassi]

Federer is old and years past his prime at this point, that is a fact. That Djokovic and Murray still sometimes lose in big matches to him despite this only serves as proof of his vast superiority in general over both.

[vllaznia]

Originally Posted by Mainad

Lol...so Fed aged badly in the 4 weeks between the Wimbledon and Olympic finals did he?

And of course you expect a 31 years old guy to recuperate physically and mentally after the longest 3 set match like he was 25-26 years old.

[Sabratha]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Not really... Anything Murray can do, Nadal can do it 5 times better.. Rafa also has the nerves of steel while Murray 9 times out of 10 buckles under the pressure of big matches. Murray's main reason for a h2h over Roger (non slams mind you) is the fact that Fed is getting old.

Djoker-Murray is interesting. But generally Djoker is the victor there.

Was Federer old in 2006?

2006 ATP Masters Series Cincinnati
OH, U.S.A. Hard R32 Murray, Andy
7-5, 6-4.

[nethawkwenatchee]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Murray's main reason for a h2h over Roger (non slams mind you) is the fact that Fed is getting old.

Not true. Starting all the way back in Shanghai 2005 - Doha 2009 Murray held a 5-2 record versus a then "prime" Federer (That's their first seven meetings) and Murray was an upstart for the first few years, Federer was winning major championships.

[joeri888]

Originally Posted by nethawkwenatchee

Not true. Starting all the way back in Shanghai 2005 - Doha 2009 Murray held a 5-2 record versus a then "prime" Federer (That's their first seven meetings) and Murray was an upstart for the first few years, Federer was winning major championships.

I consider Federer's prime 2004-2007, if they were from the same generation, Fed would of course look a lot better. But Murray plays who's in front of him and does that well.

The fact that Federer still hangs tough with these guys is and will be a testament to his greatness. He's 1-1 with nadal, 2-2 with Novak, and 2-2 with Murray I think this year.

[BrooklynNY]

Not exactly. I don't see why logic dictates he would matchup well against Nadal. It's not like he consistently takes he ball on the rise, or keeps Rafa guessing by attacking net.

Murray can force Federer into erroring himself to death if Fed isn't playing perfectly. The same can be said for Nole, especially when he was mentally up and down.

Until Murray recently improved his aggression and his forehand, I don't think Murray really had anything to hurt Nadal with, and Nadal is less likely to beat himself than Fed or Nole is.

Just my thoughts..

[6-1 6-3 6-0]

Nadal has a great head-to-head against all of the other top 4 players, and pretty much every other player. (H2Hs like 1-3 with Hrbaty, 5-6 with Davydenko and 0-1 with Rosol are hardly decisive.)

Can't see why this is surprising. The player with the most talent has the greater number of superior H2Hs with his 'rivals'.