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11-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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#1 |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 291
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Ivan Lendl's Career v Roger Feder's Career (NON GS Consistency Only, please)
Good Stuuf! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Le...eer_statistics
Take away Roger's GS wins..for the sake of this post...I'd take Ivan Lendl's career any day, all day over Roger Feder's career, week end and week out..for sheer consitency and dominace. No?  all with inferior equipment, faster surfaces on every surface, and playingmore tournaments than any other, except for Jimmy Connors, and maybe a few others... LOLJust saying, at 31, lendl had 89 tournametn wins, to Roger's 77 wins at 31....so Roger, CAN be another Jimmy Connors, in longevity.... Lendl's severe back and disc problems did him in and out in 1994... These are Tournament WINS ASIDE from his 94 ATP Tournament Wins... LOL Other singles titles - Draw at least 8 players (37)Year Date Tournament Surface Final opponent Final result Winners prize IVAN LENDL WINS vs Opponents....aside from the 94 ATP Wins 1980 Sept 10-14 Sγo Paulo - Brazil Invitational Cup Clay Gene Mayer 6–3, 7–5 1980 Feb 25-27 Genoa - Bitti Bergamo Memorial Carpet Johan Kriek 6–2, 6–2 1981 Aug 26-30 White Plains - AMF Head Cup [1] Hard Ilie Năstase W/O $50,000 1981 Nov 23-29 Milan - Master Brooklyn Chewing Gum [2] Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 2–6, 6–4 $85,000 1982 Feb 4–7 Toronto - Molson Light Challenge [3] Carpet John McEnroe 7–5, 3–6, 7–6, 7–5 1982 Oct 19-24 Melbourne - Mazda Super Challenge [4] Carpet Vitas Gerulaitis 6–2, 6–2, 7–5 $100,000 1982 Nov 30-Dec 5 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship [5] Carpet John McEnroe 3–6, 7–6, 6–3, 6–3 1983 Jan 10-16 Rosemont - Lite Challenge of Champions [6] Carpet Jimmy Connors 4–6, 6–4, 7–5, 6–4 $100,000 1984 Jan 30-Feb 5 Toronto - Molson Light Challenge [7] Carpet Yannick Noah 6–0, 6–2, 6–4 $100,000 1984 Aug 20-26 Jericho - Hamlet Challenge Cup [8] Hard Andrιs Gσmez 6–2, 6–4 1984 Nov 12-18 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship [9] Carpet Anders Jδrryd 6–2, 6–1, 6–2 $200,000 1985 Aug 19-25 Jericho - Executone Hamlet Challenge Cup [10] Hard Jimmy Connors 6–1, 6–3 1985 Oct 28-Nov 3 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship [11] Carpet John McEnroe 1–6, 7–6, 6–2, 6–2 $200,000* 1986 Jan 6-12 Atlanta - AT&T Challenge of Champions [12] Carpet Jimmy Connors 6–2, 6–3 $150,000 1986 Apr 28-May 4 Ede - Audi Championship Clay Stefan Edberg 7–6, 6–3 1986 Aug 19-24 Jericho - Norstar Bank Hamlet Challenge Cup [13] Hard John McEnroe 6–2, 6–4 1987 May 7–10 Ede - Audi Championship Clay Paolo Canθ 7–6, 6–3 1987 Jul 22-26 Stowe - Head Classic[14] Hard Jimmy Arias 6–3, 6–3 1987 Oct 27-Nov 1 Antwerp - European Community Championship [15] Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 5–7, 6–1, 6–4, 6–3 $250,000 1988 Jan 7-10 Gold Coast - Sanctuary Cove Classic Hard Wally Masur 6–7, 7–6, 6–4 1988 April 28-May 1 Atlanta - AT&T Challenge of Champions [16] Clay (Har-Tru) Stefan Edberg 2–6, 6–1, 6–3 $150,000 1989 Dec 28-Jan 1 Newcastle - N.S.W. Invitational Hard Carl-Uwe Steeb 6–3, 7–6 1989 Feb 6-12 Chicago - Volvo Tennis Carpet Brad Gilbert 6–2, 7–6 1989 Aug 21-27 Jericho - Norstar Bank Hamlet Challenge Cup [17] Hard Mikael Pernfors 4–6, 6–2, 6–4 1989 Oct 2–7 Stuttgart - Eurocard Classic[18] Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 6–3, 4–6, 4–6, 6–1, 6–4 1989 Oct 19-22 Essen - Germany Invitational Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 6–4, 6–2 1989 Oct 23-29 Antwerp - European Community Championship [19] Carpet Miloslav Mečνř 6–2, 6–2, 1–6, 6–4 $250,000 1990 Jun 4-10 Beckenham - Kent Grass Court Championships Grass Darren Cahill 6–3, 7–5 1990 Aug 20-26 Forest Hills, New York - WCT Tournament of Champions Hard Aaron Krickstein 6–4, 6–7, 6–3 $100,000 1990 Oct 17-21 Hong Kong - Marlboro Championships [20] Carpet Michael Chang 1–6, 6–2, 6–1, 6–2 $200,000 1991 Jan 2–6 Salamander Bay - Roche Racquet Classic Hard Carl-Uwe Steeb 6–4, 6–2 1991 Jun 3–9 Beckenham - Kent Grass Court Championships Grass Pat Cash 3–6, 7–6, 7–6 1991 Oct 16-20 Hong Kong - Marlboro Championships[21] Carpet David Wheaton 6–3, 7–5, 6–1 $200,000 1992 Jul 27-Aug 2 Boston - U.S. Pro Championships Hard Richey Reneberg 6–3, 6–3 1992 Oct 19-25 Hong Kong - Marlboro Championships Carpet Michael Chang 6–3, 4–6, 6–4, 6–4 $200,000 1993 Jul 13-18 Boston - U.S. Pro Championships Hard Todd Martin 5–7, 6–3, 7–6 1994 Jul 12-17 Boston - U.S. Pro Championships Hard Malivai Washington 7–5, 7–6 1981 Nov 4–5 Calcutta - Indian Classic Cup Hard John Alexander 6–4, 6–2 1981 Nov 7–8 Jakarta - Indonesian Grand Prix Tennis Hard Wojciech Fibak 6–1, 7–6, 9–7 1984 February San Juan - Governors Cup (Porto Rico) - 4-men exhibition ? Gene Mayer 6–3, 6–2 $80,000 1984 Apr 7–8 Tokyo - Suntory Cup [22] Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 3–6, 6–2 $110,000 1985 Apr 20-21 Tokyo - Suntory Cup [23] Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 6–2 $110,000 1985 Oct 8–9 East Rutherford - The Members Only Meadowlands Tennis Challenge[24] Hard John McEnroe 7–5, 6–4 1985 Nov 21-23 Canberra - Rio International Challenge Carpet Tim Mayotte 6–4, 6–4 1987 May 5–6 Barcelona - Royal Polo Club [25] Clay John McEnroe 6–2, 3–6, 6–2 1987 Nov 25-29 West Palm Beach - The Stakes Matches [26] Hard Pat Cash 11–21, 21–18, 21–7, 22–20 $583,200 1988 Jul 21-24 Monterrey - Hartmarx Racquet Club Apparel Tennis Classic Hard Kevin Curren 6–4, 7–6 1989 May 27–28 Marseille - Charity Matches Invitational [27] Clay Andre Agassi 6–3, 6–3 1989 Oct 24-25 Bologna - All Stars Tennis Classic Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 7–5 1990 Nov 10-11 Rome - Big Four Tennis Carpet Stefan Edberg 5–7, 7–6, 7–6 1990 Nov 12 Milan - Muratti Shoot Out Tie-Break Carpet Jonas Svensson 7–5, 5–7, 7–4 1990 Dec 3–5 Bolzano - Ebel Tennis Trophy Carpet Goran Ivanišević 6–2, 7–6 1990 Dec 8–9 Zόrich - Swiss Invitational Tennis Cup Carpet Pete Sampras 3–6, 7–6, 6–4 Now compare with Roger Feder's Career, (NON GS Wins)..... Pretty dominant? No? now you see Roger has a long ways to go... just saying... yes 17 GS is better than Lendl's 8...No question about it. NONE! Today's tennis fans and players have NO comprehension how difficult and FUN tennis was in the 80's PRE-Sampras era... just saying, using Today's players, with advanced technology, SLOWER courts all around...the players of the 80's era, had more challenges, tougher draws and faster surfaces, and smaller racquets to achieve more than most players are achieving still today... What Lendl did in the 80's is utter DOMINANCNE..not only did he win 94 ATP Tirels, but look at all the OTHER TITLES he WON outside of the ATP...is mindboggling.... Jimmy Connors has more overall wins....utter dominance. Connors and Lendl were FREAKS!! Also Connors as he got older and slower got larger and larger racquets to stay in the game to compete with the younger players...so he played longer.... Discuss. Is Roger Feder GOAT, most likey, yes...does Roger have more GS than ANYONE? Absolutely. But is he as consistent as Jimmy Connors or Ivan Lendl were, year end and year out? Utter domiance? ? Nope. Not even close.Last edited by lendlmac : 11-13-2012 at 01:37 PM. |
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11-13-2012, 01:32 PM
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#2 |
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Semi-Pro
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 668
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eh, roger made more money, i'll take his career.
in fact, roger probably will make more money even after he's retired just on endorsements in the same way MJ still makes decent coin on endorsements even though he hasn't made a bucket in over a decade. |
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11-13-2012, 01:39 PM
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#3 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 291
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11-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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#4 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,823
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11-13-2012, 02:16 PM
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#5 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,522
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Quote:
Lendl, like Connors and others, racked up tons of titles at tournaments which, by today's standard, would be the equivalent of Federer or Djokovic rushing around the calendar playing 250 level or lower tournaments like Zagreb, Sao Paulo, Houston, Belgrade, Umag, Auckland etc. Those guys often played close to 30 tournaments a year in the late 70s and early 80s, compared to more like 17 nowdays. As an example, Lendl in 1982... won 15 titles out of 25 tournaments played (60% win rate). Exclude the two majors he played (he missed the Aussie Open and Wimbledon) and the average draw size of these tournaments was less than 36 players (35.82) - giving him a 5 match average draw (excluding first round byes which he had 3 of). Federer by contrast in 2006 played 18 tournaments for 12 titles (67% win rate). Exclude the four majors and and his average draw size was 46 (46.2) - i.e. he had to win an extra match per tournament on average to win each title (excluding first round byes of which he had 4) - and, the level of the tournaments was also higher on average too. Over the course of a year that's 12 more matches that Federer had to play... 10% more basically to be rewarded with 3 fewer titles than Lendl. His titles were harder to win - by some margin - and he had fewer of them available to play as well. Now, I chose 1982 because it was was nowhere near Lendl's peak but chose 2006 for Federer because it was. But looking at crude numbers and excluding majors you'd be forgiven for thinking Lendl had a better year - but you're not really comparing apples with apples. Not even close. Let's not let nostalgia blur the fact that guys in the early 80s were able to rack up shitloads of titles in comparatively easy circumstances.
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Original Pro Staff 85, leaded to 370g, hybrid poly/syn gut set-up, 48-52-ish lbs. Last edited by Bobby Jr : 11-13-2012 at 02:24 PM. |
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11-13-2012, 02:19 PM
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#6 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,476
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We're in a stronger era.
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11-13-2012, 02:39 PM
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#7 | |
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G.O.A.T.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,623
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Quote:
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NadalAgassi: I think Serena's final slam tally will be something from 18-27. My best guess is 24 or 25 though; Nole(2010) will never win Wimbledon |
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11-13-2012, 05:41 PM
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#8 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Home of the 2010 Winter Olympics
Posts: 2,046
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Quote:
Last edited by TheFifthSet : 11-13-2012 at 05:44 PM. |
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11-14-2012, 02:02 PM
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#9 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,635
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TMF on Jan. 2011- Serena is washed up for good, TMF in Oct. 2009- Nadal has won his final slam, TMF in 2011- Woz will beat Serena at U.S Open |
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11-14-2012, 02:12 PM
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#10 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 294
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There is no best. There is just the discussion of who is best. Federer, he will always be in the first part of such a discussion. Rino Tommasi |
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11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
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#11 | |
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G.O.A.T.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bristol, England
Posts: 18,422
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11-18-2012, 04:10 PM
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#12 | |
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G.O.A.T.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,623
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Quote:
__________________
NadalAgassi: I think Serena's final slam tally will be something from 18-27. My best guess is 24 or 25 though; Nole(2010) will never win Wimbledon |
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11-18-2012, 10:05 AM
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Legend
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,224
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11-18-2012, 10:48 PM
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Hall Of Fame
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11-20-2012, 02:01 PM
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#15 |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
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Still true, Federer's forehand today would not have been used in the 80's as the racquet technoligy and that Federer technique using a 90 sq in frame with Luxillon strings didn't allow that racquet head speed around the shoulder using natural gut or synthetic gut....
So Roger's game woudl have been "toned down" immensely..and woudl have been a serve and vollier ala stefan edberg...without that whipping forehand. Lendl's forehand was the best in the game in the 80's, and Agassi had the best forehand in the 90's.... and Federers forehand of 2005-2012 is alien to the 80's and 90's forehands... I do see Federer playing like Stefan Edberg, Boris Becker, Pat Cash, Derrick Rostagno, Guy Forget and Tim Mayotte-ese style of player... So Federer would have won his share of GS, but Lendl woudl still have dominated the 80's, naturally...that is given.... but Federer woudl have cometed with the likes of Tim Mayotte, Stefan Edberg, Boris Becker, Agassi and Chang.... while Lendl competes with Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Noah, Mecir, Wilander, Perfors, Gilbert etc... |
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11-20-2012, 03:09 PM
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#16 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 291
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90's Tennis Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Wheaton, Martin and Ivanisevic, Berasetugi, Brugera, Muster, Kaflenkov, Stich, Kriajeck, Enquist, Rios, Henman, Ferriera, Rusedski, Rafter, Kucera, Rosset, Medvedev, Woodbridge, Phillpousis 80's Tennis Federer, Nadal and Djokovic would have been burried and burned by the overwhelmingly fast , slick courts and fast serve and volley tennis of this Golden Era of Tennis....I do not se Federer "hanging with the Big Boys of the 80's: Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Wilander, Gerulitis, Mecir, Becker, Edberg, Gilbert, Forget, Noah, Cash, Jarryd, Curren, Krickstein, Mayotte, Leconte, Vilas, Clerc, Pernfors Last edited by lendlmac : 11-20-2012 at 03:13 PM. |
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11-20-2012, 10:00 PM
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#17 | |
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Hall Of Fame
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Posts: 3,815
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Even so, though, a field of McEnroe, Wilander, Becker, Edberg, and Connors consistently performing at a high level is stronger than one with Agassi, Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick, Hewitt, and Safin consistently performing at a high level. But throwing in Nalbandian and Ljubicic in there as if they were ever some of Federer's top competition is silly. It's like calling Lendl's era weak because Anders Jarryd and Kevin Curren were each in the top five for a while. |
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11-20-2012, 10:17 PM
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#18 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,518
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Lendl, like Federer dominated the field across multiple generations. One tends to forget that Becker and Edberg who were considered among Lendl's main rivals were 6-8 years younger to him. Similar to Djoko-Murray-Delpo being as many years younger than Fed.
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11-14-2012, 06:33 AM
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Legend
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11-14-2012, 07:37 AM
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G.O.A.T.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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NadalAgassi: I think Serena's final slam tally will be something from 18-27. My best guess is 24 or 25 though; Nole(2010) will never win Wimbledon |
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