How about a more extreme grip for one handed backhands?

[10isfreak]

Henin, to my sense, has presented one of the most
treatening backhands of all time, men included. Her approach to
backhand hitting seems very suitable for our modern game. On
the men‘s side, Gasquet has always have the hang of hitting
extremely powerful strokes.

So, I was wondering. How do one handed players feel about this grip?
And is it a suitable grip for amateurs or the game in general?

Also, well, if you use it and have videos, I would like to hear it and see it.
Thanks!

[LeeD]

Why don't you try it and judge for yourself?
Me, it takes too much energy to always hit a topspin backhand, and while you can slice off the same grip, it needs to be taken very early, something which doesn't seem to happen on every ball during a match.
My best biting slices or hit very late with a conti grip shaded towards eastern FOREhand, so it's a hard slice taken late.
Quite the change to try to hit early with topspin, well out in front of yourself. Too much change in strikezone for my feeble mind to embrace.

[10isfreak]

Oh, but I am still young. Ahahah
I did change back to a nearly eastern grip on my forehand.
It annoyed me to have troubles hitting slower balls for practice
with my former full western. It was easy to hit hard, but hard to
give away a slower balls to help my girlfriend improve her game.

On the backhand, I am tired of hitting with two hands, but since I
always had troubles off that wing to generate spin and keep a slightly
closed face at contact, it seemed like an option.

As for the subject, I wanted to bring people to debate about the above.

One handed backhands are just not well covered online... lol

[luvforty]

better to post a video.... sounds like there maybe other issues.

[BevelDevil]

It's essential to use a "modern" grip of some type, from most rec up to pro.

I'm defining "modern" as where you hold the racket like a mountain bike handle, rather than a steak knife. That's enough for a massive improvement.

Bad grips are probably a major factor in the demise of the 1hbh.

So people need to be educated about the nature of grips, but this requires better terminology.

Current terminology is ambiguous and confusing, and the internet search results unfortunately promote the Eastern "steak knife" grip rather than the grip pros actually use. Unfortunately, even reputable sites like Fuzzy Yellow Balls makes this mistake.

Defining grip purely by index knuckle is ridiculous. Consider that Dimitrov's continental grip and Wawrinka's mild Eastern grip actually play more "extreme" than a rec player's Eastern Steak Knife grip.

And using an Extreme Eastern steak knife grip isn't much better. It's mostly about the heelpad. See the pics in this recent thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=452294&page=2


Index knuckle combined with heelpad positioning would be ideal, and I can't think of a more marketable workaround aside from replacing the heelpad with the little knuckle, which is easier to see.

So ultimately, this is a battle of definitions.

[10isfreak]

Well, when I talk about a grip, I talk about two references in the hand: index knuckle AND the heelpad.

For better precision, you can use terms like distal and proximal applying these terms to specific bones... that would be ideal for accuracy.

[mikeler]

Extreme 1 handed backhand grip like LeeD said requires you to hit it way out in front. If you are young and fast go for it. The topspin is intoxicating with it.

[10isfreak]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Extreme 1 handed backhand grip like LeeD said requires you to hit it way out in front. If you are young and fast go for it. The topspin is intoxicating with it.

That‘s a slight exaggeration. One handers are typically struck only slightly forward of two handed backhands (that‘s from an actual study which compare 18 top juniors) and, at that point, your arm is mostly as far as it can get with an elbow extension and a 90 degrees angle between the handle and forearm... Henin doesn‘t look like she‘s taking it earlier than anyone else, nor does Gasquet.

As for the contact zone, it never was made sense to me. Of course, there‘s an optimal strike zone for every grip, but I was digging balls bellow my feet with a full western forehand and it wasn‘t problematic at all... I guess practice makes a big difference and, as pointed by many, the set up is crucial, but that‘s also true for any one handed backhand... or, even, dare I say, with any stroke.

[10isfreak]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Extreme 1 handed backhand grip like LeeD said requires you to hit it way out in front. If you are young and fast go for it. The topspin is intoxicating with it.

Ps wasn‘t it you who used a semi-western on his 1HBH?

[BevelDevil]

In this discussion there needs to be a reference point for an extreme grip hitting "way out in front."

Way out front compared to what? A 2hbh? Conventional wisdom says yes.

But this thread is about comparing a conventional 1hbh vs. an extreme 1hbh.

Therefore, we should compare the contact points of two these types of 1hbhs.

As it turns out, a switch from Eastern to Extreme Eastern (moving both knuckle and heel pad back by 0.5 bevels) will probably move the contact point by about 2 inches. Not much at all.


In fact, a bigger change is going from "steak knife" Eastern to a "modern" Eastern, which adds about 4-5 inches to the contact point. That's a significant difference, so this deserves some thought.

A "steak knife" has more lateral reach, is easier to flick, and can be easily hit without having to open the shoulders. Combined with a willingness to slice most balls above belly, this stroke can be part of a comfortable tennis style. It might be a reasonable choice for some casual players, older players or someone with a really good slice, etc.

Unfortunately, the steak knife Eastern is not good for even moderately high balls. So if a "steak knifer" wants to drive most his backhands, that means either:

1. He has to hit OTR consistently, which is tough to do; or
2. He has to constantly back up on medium-high balls (or stay back) and/or hit more defensive shots, which is ultimately more physically demanding than hitting with a modern grip from good position.


So in short, using a slightly stronger grip (whether we're talking knuckle or heel pad) shouldn't typically add that much overall physical demand, especially if he/she is already trying to slug it out from the baseline. And it may actually save work.

However, I could see how a big jump from, say, a Federer stoke to a Mauresmo stroke would probably add more work.

[luvforty]

i can never hit henin style...

1) have to bend knees for low balls... no can do.

2) there is no support at the bottom bevel other than the thumb.... that doesn't look like a strong position to me.... I'd have trouble dealing with emergency balls.

[boramiNYC]

Almagro vs Wawrinka 2012 Aus Open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXCKvawrmuY

Even to the beginners, the optimal technique makes learning much easier and productive.

I recommend,

Grip-E bh (not 'steaknife' nor 'mountainbike', just in between)
Stance-closed and keep the hips and shoulder sideway before and right up to contact
Weigh transfer-back to front foot
Swing path-Almagro, Gaudio, Kuerten (prepare high with elbow up shoulder level and finish high and around the body not start low finish high; for high balls racquet head could be above hand at contact)
Wrist- firmly neutral at contact (neither extended nor flexed) and supinate forearm and extend wrist for finish; this firm but well controlled wrist work with the optimal swing path makes dealing with high balls easier and adds topspin; do not keep it locked extended but do practice locked at neutral


There is absolutely no need for more extreme grip because the wrist control can achieve that. E bh grip with neutral wrist will necessitate hitting out in front. And at contact the racquet and arm angle is way more than 90. more like 120 or so.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by 10isfreak

Ps wasn‘t it you who used a semi-western on his 1HBH?

Back when I hit a 1 hander I used that grip most of the time. Injuries have forced me back to 2 handers. Let me restate that the optimal contact point is further in front.

[NLBwell]

A western grip like Henin's is good for hitting topspin on shoulder-high balls. It requires excellent movement and good hand-eye. You must move well not only to keep the contact point way in front of you, but also have the adjustements for balls which are not in the optimal strike zone. There also isn't much margin for error in the swing with non-optimal balls.
I would never teach a new player an extreme grip like that, but if you have a specific reason for going with it, try it out.

[The Meat]

Use this as a good reference for more topspin on the backhands, regardless of whether you use eastern backhand(Dimitrov) or slightly more extreme grip(Wawrinka).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6p5ZdGR4hU

They both hit with some serious topspin, its all about how you hit it and not the grip.

[boramiNYC]

I haven't seen anything that shows Wawrinka uses anything other than E bh grip. His front foot points more forward and wrist control and swing path are slightly different from most 1hbher's, but it's not grip.

[Cheetah]

Here's a good image of almagro. You can tell he's pulling the butt to the ball using his shoulder. And you can see his knuckle is in a pretty conservative position.

[boramiNYC]

thanks cheetah for illustrating my point perfectly.

[BevelDevil]

The partly agree with Cheetah in that it is about "lift" with the arm, at least for most players.

BUT, in order to achieve that "lift" you need to hit further out front so that your arm is in the upward arc of of the swing. If you hit close to your body, at the bottom of the arc, the racket has no lift.

Therefore, you need a grip that allows you to hit sufficiently out in front. Rolling back your heel pad is the easiest way to achieve this.

As I've said before, it makes no sense to only use the index knuckle as a measure of grip. There's a huge difference between an Eastern with the heelpad on top vs. heel pad on the back bevel. Anyone who tries this can feel it.

Since I've stated all this recently, here's a link

http://beveldevil.blogspot.com/2013/...bout-heel.html

[Cheetah]

true. good point. i was mainly concerned with the knuckle explanation in my post.