Lower rated player playing line 1 singles

[Ipster]

Yesterday I played my first USTA match of the 2013 season. I am a 3.0 player in my 4th season and my goal is to be 3.5 next year. I'm close but I have to have a good year this year. I'm going to play a few matches at 3.5 but my plan is to play 18+ and 40+ at 3.0 at singles. I've been taking lessons the past few months to work exclusively on my singles game and I've been playing practice matches vs. strong 3.0 players and a few 3.5 players.

Yesterday I knew the other team only had one real singles player and I played her two years ago and lost twice so I was excited to see where I was at this point. The other team player her at line 2 and played a 2.5 rated player at line 1. This 2.5 rated player was 0-9 playing singles the last two years. She has never won a set and has won only 24 games in those 9 matches. I was very upset. I am not captain of this team but I've been a captain for my team for 3 years and I think this is completely against the code of honor for USTA captains. It wasn't fair to me, my opponent or the other singles players. In the end I'm most upset about the fact that I didn't even get a chance to help my dynamic rating.

I emailed the coordinator and complained. The captain of the other team wasn't there so I didn't get a chance to express my displeasure with her.

I understand you can stack line ups in USTA but I think a lower rated player who plays up on a team shouldn't be playing line 1.

I don't have a question I am just still ticked.

[Alchemy-Z]

Were they younger? when I was still a 3.0 playing up 3.5 in my first season I got put at line 1 every week...because most of the team was older guys who did not want to play singles.. none of them felt they were going to win it...so throw the new kid to the wolves and at the least I had the athletic ability to chase balls for an hour and half.

like you said they don't really have singles players...maybe they were mixing things up to see how it goes.

[Ipster]

She was probably in her late 30's. I'm 44 and this is an 18+ league. They had a true singles player playing line 2. She was tired in the first set and I beat her 2 0 in an hour.

I just feel like it was bad form by their captain.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

The USTA has stated explicitly that they do not require the best players to play on lines above weaker players. The only exception to this policy happens in 4.5+ or 5.0 + leagues where it is clear that the player in question is higher rated.

By not requiring the best players to play the top lines the USTA avoids having to deal with complaints of lineup stacking.

I am sure that the other team knew they would only be winning 1 singles court so they took the sure thing and played their best player at line 2. In absence of a stacking rule this is good planning by the other captain. BY doing this periodically she places doubt in the minds of her future opponents where this star 3.0 woman will be lined up.

[Ipster]

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

I am sure that the other team knew they would only be winning 1 singles court so they took the sure thing and played their best player at line 2. In absence of a stacking rule this is good planning by the other captain. BY doing this periodically she places doubt in the minds of her future opponents where this star 3.0 woman will be lined up.

My team ended up winning the match 3-2. The singles player who played line 2 beat me twice two years ago so it wouldn't have been a stretch for them to think she could have beat me. As a captain of a 2.5 player who hasn't won a set at 3.0 I think she should be ashamed to play her player at line 1. How discouraging is that for the 2.5 player to get beat up every time she steps on a court and not even have a chance to win a set? I would never do that to one of my players.

[Govnor]

Sounds very annoying to me. Bummer for you.

[Ipster]

Originally Posted by Govnor

Sounds very annoying to me. Bummer for you.

Thanks!

Since no RULES were broke the league coordinator isn't going to say anything to the captain. I plan to write an email the opposing captain to let her know that as a captain for the USTA we are given "The Honor Code of Ethics" when we agree to be a captain and the number 1 item under Courtesy is "The game of tennis depends on courtesy and fairness." She should know that by putting this 2.5 woman at line 1 it wasn't fair to anyone who played singles in that match.

[Mauvaise]

Originally Posted by Ipster

I plan to write an email the opposing captain to let her know that as a captain for the USTA we are given "The Honor Code of Ethics" when we agree to be a captain and the number 1 item under Courtesy is "The game of tennis depends on courtesy and fairness." She should know that by putting this 2.5 woman at line 1 it wasn't fair to anyone who played singles in that match.

As a captain myself if I were to receive this email from an opposing team member (not even the opposing team captain), I would roll my eyes while laughing and forward it to my co-captain so she could laugh also. I doubt I would even reply to you. I might forward it to your captain and ask them to keep a tighter rein on their team members.

You don't know the reasons the captain had to put the 2.5 on S1 and for you to be this het up about it signals (as someone up-thread mentioned) a long season for you.

The captain is not going to get a bad reputation for stacking.

[Ipster]

Originally Posted by Mauvaise

As a captain myself if I were to receive this email from an opposing team member (not even the opposing team captain), I would roll my eyes while laughing and forward it to my co-captain so she could laugh also. I doubt I would even reply to you. I might forward it to your captain and ask them to keep a tighter rein on their team members.

You don't know the reasons the captain had to put the 2.5 on S1 and for you to be this het up about it signals (as someone up-thread mentioned) a long season for you.

The captain is not going to get a bad reputation for stacking.

I happen to be a captain in the USTA and I'm glad you aren't the captain of a team I'm on. I guess I have a lot more consideration for other people.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Mauvaise

As a captain myself if I were to receive this email from an opposing team member (not even the opposing team captain), I would roll my eyes while laughing and forward it to my co-captain so she could laugh also. I doubt I would even reply to you. I might forward it to your captain and ask them to keep a tighter rein on their team members.

Sad to say it, OP, but +1.

The only tweak I would make to Mauvaise's remarks is that I might also forward the message to my entire team so everyone could have a good laugh.

An opponent has no right whatever to complain that an opposing player should be on a different court. I understand your frustration, but you are way out of line.

You don't know the reasons the captain had to put the 2.5 on S1 and for you to be this het up about it signals (as someone up-thread mentioned) a long season for you.

Yes, exactly. Perhaps their stronger player was nursing an injury and hoped to have an easier match on Court Two. Or maybe she is just afraid to play you. Or maybe the strong player was running late, captain wasn't sure she would arrive on time and put her on Court Two for that reason. Or maybe the stronger player is one of those people who gets a little nervous being on Court One, or the weak player wanted a challenge.

Honestly, I do not see why you would complain about having to face such a weak opponent. Did you double-bagel her? If not, then you could have played the match better.

I remember my last match at 3.5 singles. (I do not play singles much). The opponent was a 3.0 playing up, a friend. She has horrible strokes and horrible movement. No challenge for me at all. Still, beating her -0 and -1 was a good experience. I got practice dealing with a pusher, continuing to hit my strokes the way they should be hit despite the oddball stuff she was producing, and closing out a match I was supposed to win.

Next time, hide your disappointment not to have drawn a stronger opponent, beat your inferior opponent senseless, then rally with her and practice a few things.

[spot]

Ipster- you can write that letter but you should know that everyone will get a good laugh out of you. Just because you are under the misconception that the line number in USTA matters does not mean anything to anyone else.

Their captain has the duty to put out the best line for their team. If the 2.5 player complains about the result than that should be what the captain cares about- not what the opponents think they should have done with their lineup.

[Ipster]

Originally Posted by spot

Ipster- you can write that letter but you should know that everyone will get a good laugh out of you. Just because you are under the misconception that the line number in USTA matters does not mean anything to anyone else.

Their captain has the duty to put out the best line for their team. If the 2.5 player complains about the result than that should be what the captain cares about- not what the opponents think they should have done with their lineup.

She didn't do a very good job for her team or her players. She lost the match. She is the one who is going to get the bad reputation. This is women's 3.0 tennis. We aren't getting paid. Tennis is supposed to be fun.

I've been a USTA captain for 3 years and I know stacking happens. If it happens within the same rating that is one thing but when you put a lower raated player at line 1 you are just being obnoxious and unfair to everyone who pays good money to play good competitive matches.

[schmke]

Originally Posted by Ipster

She didn't do a very good job for her team or her players. She lost the match.

Get over it. I've had to play a doubles match on court 1 against two opponents both playing up. It happens, just play your best and move on. If you are really worthy of getting bumped up, your results will show it and this one match won't really be a factor, especially since it is early in the year.

And if the opposing captain had played straight-up, perhaps they would have lost 4-1 rather than 3-2 and if so, she did do a good job for her team maximizing their chance at a team win.

[OrangePower]

Ipster, don't blame the opposing captain, blame the USTA.

They specifically mention in several places that the line/court assignments have no meaning and do not correlate to strength.

And then of course they contradict themselves also! (By mandating that defaults be taken from the bottom up, and by requiring that higher rated players in the new '+' leagues play at line 1.)

At any rate, there is no captain's code of honor that requires lineups to be set in order of strength. Some captains stack, some don't. If anything, take it as a compliment that the opposing captain did not want to risk her top singles player in a match against you.

BTW I am sympathic to your situation. I get pissed off when I have to play against people playing up - waste of all our time and money. I personally would prefer it if playing up were not allowed, but I know I am in the minority.

[Ipster]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Ipster, don't blame the opposing captain, blame the USTA.

They specifically mention in several places that the line/court assignments have no meaning and do not correlate to strength.

And then of course they contradict themselves also! (By mandating that defaults be taken from the bottom up, and by requiring that higher rated players in the new '+' leagues play at line 1.)

At any rate, there is no captain's code of honor that requires lineups to be set in order of strength. Some captains stack, some don't. If anything, take it as a compliment that the opposing captain did not want to risk her top singles player in a match against you.

BTW I am sympathic to your situation. I get pissed off when I have to play against people playing up - waste of all our time and money. I personally would prefer it if playing up were not allowed, but I know I am in the minority.

Thank you.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

They specifically mention in several places that the line/court assignments have no meaning and do not correlate to strength.

And then of course they contradict themselves also! (By mandating that defaults be taken from the bottom up, and by requiring that higher rated players in the new '+' leagues play at line 1.)

FWIW, I think USTA should make a national rule change to deal with this.

The change should simply be that no lower-rated player may play on a higher court than a higher-rated player. For doubles, the combined rating of a pair on a higher court cannot be lower than the combined rating of a pair on a lower court.

The current rule about defaulting from the bottom would be discarded. 'Cause it is pointless and stupid.

This rule change would be so great. It would increase the chance that players would have competitive matches.

I remember a time when I was playing 6.5 combo, Court One. Opposing team fielded two 3.5 players, two 3.0 players and two 2.5 players. They put the two 2.5 players onto Court One against me (3.5) and my partner (3.0). We destroyed them, and it wasn't any fun.

Under the rule I propose, their captain would have lots of line-up options, but the one option that would be illegal would be a 5.0 pair on Court One and two 6.5 pairs on Courts Two and Three.

[Govnor]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

FWIW, I think USTA should make a national rule change to deal with this.

The change should simply be that no lower-rated player may play on a higher court than a higher-rated player. For doubles, the combined rating of a pair on a higher court cannot be lower than the combined rating of a pair on a lower court.

The current rule about defaulting from the bottom would be discarded. 'Cause it is pointless and stupid.

This rule change would be so great. It would increase the chance that players would have competitive matches.

I remember a time when I was playing 6.5 combo, Court One. Opposing team fielded two 3.5 players, two 3.0 players and two 2.5 players. They put the two 2.5 players onto Court One against me (3.5) and my partner (3.0). We destroyed them, and it wasn't any fun.

Under the rule I propose, their captain would have lots of line-up options, but the one option that would be illegal would be a 5.0 pair on Court One and two 6.5 pairs on Courts Two and Three.

I don't really understand why this isn't the rule anyway. I might be in the minority here, but surely tennis at our level is about having competitive matches, not about "winning as a team"? It's actually laughable the amount of thought that seems to go into these things. Like it's the Davis Cup or something.

[IA-SteveB]

If you take it this seriously and get bent out of shape, it's going to be a long season. Just my opinion! You'll end up playing a lot of even keel teams and you'll forget about this incident...

[Mongolmike]

It's a tough situation for you since you are investing a lot of time, effort and money to improve your game...

but, the opposing teams do not have the same goal as you do personally. Their goal is to win 3 courts. No matter what the code says, they are not obligated to give you the match you think would be fair.

Also, I don't think anyone likes the idea of stacking... unless it helped their team to secure a win. You know that is unfortunately how it works.

[Ipster]

Originally Posted by Mongolmike

It's a tough situation for you since you are investing a lot of time, effort and money to improve your game...

but, the opposing teams do not have the same goal as you do personally. Their goal is to win 3 courts. No matter what the code says, they are not obligated to give you the match you think would be fair.

Also, I don't think anyone likes the idea of stacking... unless it helped their team to secure a win. You know that is unfortunately how it works.

I'm glad the team won the match. You hit the nail on the head understanding where I was coming from. I was frustrated because I've been working hard and hoping to improve my dynamic rating this year and this stuff just doesn't help.