What happened to McEnroe after Borg's retirement?

[krosero]

I've heard McEnroe say, many years after Borg's retirement, that it was a disappointment to him, because he lost his greatest rival.

But is Borg's withdrawal from Slam play the reason that McEnroe fell from #1 in 1982? Did McEnroe experience some kind of letdown then? I mean, Borg was not yet officially retired.

And I've heard on this board that McEnroe lost some of his time at the top to too much partying. Was that already in 1982?

Anyone know what was going on with Mac in that year?

[Moose Malloy]

Technically, Mac was #1 in '82(though everyone knew Connors was the real #1)

Mac played only 2 slams in '82, losing in the W final & US semis.

He played 15 events, won 5 of them, made the finals in 5, semis in 4, & one QF loss. He was a very consistent player in his prime years. Also Led the US to the Davis Cup title(playing in all 4 ties) in '82.

I don't think it was that much of a dropoff from his '81 form.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

Technically, Mac was #1 in '82(though everyone knew Connors was the real #1)

Mac played only 2 slams in '82, losing in the W final & US semis.

He played 15 events, won 5 of them, made the finals in 5, semis in 4, & one QF loss. He was a very consistent player in his prime years. Also Led the US to the Davis Cup title(playing in all 4 ties) in '82.

I don't think it was that much of a dropoff from his '81 form.

True, a lot of good results for him in '82. I guess what makes me think of a dropoff is all his losses to Lendl: late '81 in Davis Cup, then the Masters, the WCT Finals, the US Open, the Masters again in Jan. '83 -- a lot of these in straight sets.

McEnroe's close loss to Connors at Wimbledon I can understand. The consistent one-sided losses to Lendl are more of a mystery.

[Moose Malloy]

well Lendl was a pretty good player

He beat Connors pretty badly shortly before the US Open that year.

Mac was able to turn it around vs Lendl in '83.

[BigboyDan]

Mac v. Lendl: Ivan could hit winners down the line from the deep baseline, forehand and backhand. Enough said...

[grizzly4life]

just finished MAC's book (see the thread).....

but MAC never won another grand slam almost to the month that he started dating tatum. and i think he'd won 3 of the last 4 and choked away the FO (i.e. should have won).... and not a huge training guy either so age wasn't easy, but tatum was straight downhill for johnny.......

had an absolute worship for borg, which really surprised me. but mac really, really loved the guy for everything. seems to have love/hate or MUCH WORSE with lendl, connors, becker. and the other guys (sampras, agassi) were a newer era.

[The Gorilla]

Originally Posted by krosero

True, a lot of good results for him in '82. I guess what makes me think of a dropoff is all his losses to Lendl: late '81 in Davis Cup, then the Masters, the WCT Finals, the US Open, the Masters again in Jan. '83 -- a lot of these in straight sets.

McEnroe's close loss to Connors at Wimbledon I can understand. The consistent one-sided losses to Lendl are more of a mystery.

Lendl was a much better player than mcenroe,(with a graphite racquet).He was even more dominant than federer, he got to 19 grandslam finals.He learned to how to volley in his twenties and got to 2 wimbledon finals.He won 3 french opens and would have won more if he hadn't skipped it to concentrate on wimbledon.He got to 8 us open finals in a row.HE spent most of 1983-1990 as number 1.He had a gonzales like forehand, and his backhand was one of the very best of all time.He won 11 out of 17 titles in '85.On his first year on the tour he won 7 singles titles.He beat mcenroe in two grandslam finals.He won 110 finals, not including 6 doubles titles.HE has a singles record of 1070-328, compared to federer's 497-127.

People hate(d) the guy because he radiated misery though.That's why he doesn't get mentioned in GOAT threads.

[Moose Malloy]

had an absolute worship for borg, which really surprised me. but mac really, really loved the guy for everything. seems to have love/hate or MUCH WORSE with lendl, connors, becker

That's partly because Borg was older than Mac & was already a tennis god when Mac came on tour. Mac also worships Laver, which isn't surprising. Its harder to have that kind of feeling for some one the same age or even younger than you(lendl, becker), when you have the ego that mac has.

[CyBorg]

Mac's a hothead who liked to party. It's not surprising that his career was on-and-off. And his personal life...

It's too bad that Borg retired. Mac was too inconsistent to always beat him.

[Serve 'em hard]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

That's partly because Borg was older than Mac & was already a tennis god when Mac came on tour. Mac also worships Laver, which isn't surprising. Its harder to have that kind of feeling for some one the same age or even younger than you(lendl, becker), when you have the ego that mac has.

Think he said that even ball boy'd one of Borg's matches at Forest Hills when he was a kid. That's gotta be cool. One day you're a ball ball for a guy, three years later you're beating him.

[Condoleezza]

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Lendl was a much better player than mcenroe,(with a graphite racquet).He was even more dominant than federer, he got to 19 grandslam finals.He learned to how to volley in his twenties and got to 2 wimbledon finals.He won 3 french opens and would have won more if he hadn't skipped it to concentrate on wimbledon.He got to 8 us open finals in a row.HE spent most of 1983-1990 as number 1.He had a gonzales like forehand, and his backhand was one of the very best of all time.He won 11 out of 17 titles in '85.On his first year on the tour he won 7 singles titles.He beat mcenroe in two grandslam finals.He won 110 finals, not including 6 doubles titles.HE has a singles record of 1070-328, compared to federer's 497-127.

People hate(d) the guy because he radiated misery though.That's why he doesn't get mentioned in GOAT threads.

Lendl came from a communist country.
That didn't make him popular during the Reagan years in the States ...

Condi

[breakfast_of_champions]

Originally Posted by krosero

I've heard McEnroe say, many years after Borg's retirement, that it was a disappointment to him, because he lost his greatest rival.

But is Borg's withdrawal from Slam play the reason that McEnroe fell from #1 in 1982? Did McEnroe experience some kind of letdown then? I mean, Borg was not yet officially retired.

And I've heard on this board that McEnroe lost some of his time at the top to too much partying. Was that already in 1982?

Anyone know what was going on with Mac in that year?

are you sure lendl wasn't his greatest rival?

[stormholloway]

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Lendl was a much better player than mcenroe,(with a graphite racquet).He was even more dominant than federer, he got to 19 grandslam finals.He learned to how to volley in his twenties and got to 2 wimbledon finals.He won 3 french opens and would have won more if he hadn't skipped it to concentrate on wimbledon.He got to 8 us open finals in a row.HE spent most of 1983-1990 as number 1.He had a gonzales like forehand, and his backhand was one of the very best of all time.He won 11 out of 17 titles in '85.On his first year on the tour he won 7 singles titles.He beat mcenroe in two grandslam finals.He won 110 finals, not including 6 doubles titles.HE has a singles record of 1070-328, compared to federer's 497-127.

People hate(d) the guy because he radiated misery though.That's why he doesn't get mentioned in GOAT threads.

What? Wrong.

I love Lendl, but he was not nearly as talented as McEnroe. And you can't say he would have won more French Opens because there were others there to beat him.

Let's face it, Lendl was a choker, and Mac let him win the French in 84 because Mac was a hot head. I will say that Lendl came into form as McEnroe lost his, but to say Lendl was a better tennis player is just not true. Lendl had a forehand of the gods and a backhand to be envied, but he couldn't volley for the life of him.

Lendl was no Borg.

[travlerajm]

Mac would have won a few more majors if he didn't take half a year off. He never regained the form he had before the layoff.

[slice bh compliment]

Originally Posted by krosero

I've heard McEnroe say, many years after Borg's retirement, that it was a disappointment to him, because he lost his greatest rival.

But is Borg's withdrawal from Slam play the reason that McEnroe fell from #1 in 1982? Did McEnroe experience some kind of letdown then? I mean, Borg was not yet officially retired.

And I've heard on this board that McEnroe lost some of his time at the top to too much partying. Was that already in 1982?

Anyone know what was going on with Mac in that year?

82 was a tough year in the Slams for any Mac fan, especially that 5 set loss to Connors in the Wimbledon final.

I'm sure Borg's retirement left a piece missing in Mac at some point, but who knows if it completely registered at the time. Mac and others at the time were probably wondering when he'd make it back...the whole having to qualify at Wimbledon thing. Very odd. Would never happen today.

As late as the mid 80s, people in the tennis industry would speculate a Borg comeback. Bjorn Again? Like how, in the late 70s, people talked about John, Paul, George and Ringo reuniting.

Now, let's not forget, Mac had a good 83 and an otherworldly 84 (apart from that 5 set loss to Lendl at Roland Garros). One of the finest seasons in tennis history.

It is after 1984 that he began to slide. Marrying Tatum, having a long, long layoff in 86...he was never the same player.

Who could forget an aging Mac getting to the semis at the 90 US Open (l. to Sampras), or testing Agassi in the semi of the 92 Wimbledon, and that year he beat Boris at the Oz Open?

[ty slothrop]

Originally Posted by Condoleezza

Lendl came from a communist country.
That didn't make him popular during the Reagan years in the States ...

Condi

and yet, during that time and since, he was the greatest Reaganite Republican of all...

[TheNatural]

he did pretty well

81:,at about 22, He dominated Borg anyways,beating him 3 times, so i don't think his retirement mattered. It was probably a good time for Borg to retire. Looking at the results, Mcenroe did well for a few years before better power players came along. I guess by 85 Lendl was as good and getting better, and guys like Becker were better at Wimbledon

81 2 / 3 slams (2 of 3 he participated in)
82 0 / 2 slams
83 1 / 4 slams
84 2 / 3 slams
85 0 / 4 slams (1 final)

.

[slice bh compliment]

Originally Posted by TheNatural

he did pretty well

81:,at about 22, He dominated Borg anyways,beating him 3 times, so i don't think his retirement mattered. It was probably a good time for Borg to retire. Looking at the results, Mcenroe did well for a few years before better power players came along. I guess by 85 Lendl was as good and getting better, and guys like Becker were better at Wimbledon

81 2 / 3 slams (2 of 3 he participated in)
82 0 / 2 slams
83 1 / 4 slams
84 2 / 3 slams
85 0 / 4 slams (1 final)

.

Good points. Yeah, Becker made that Wimbledon. Shouldacouldawoulda here, and it is unfair to think this way.....but can you imagine if Jimmy or Mac had beaten Kevin Curren that week? Then it would have been John against Boris in the final. Nice.

Well, back to this thread. Paradorn the interruption.