Who thinks Fed would play better with a 95" racquet?

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by nBladed

If anybody does a search, you will find that Wilson and Fed went through many molds to get "it right". I personally don't believe it is the previous racket with a new pj.

You're absolutely right. Federer did help to design his current racquet and he probably did go through many molds and prototypes. However, all of this happened in 2002 when he switched from the PS 6.0 85 to his current racquet. He's been using the same racquet ever since.

[nBladed]

Also, another bit of speculation....

If I was Wilson and had k factor pj of pro staff rackets i would definitely have Jim Courier and Pete Sampras playing with them to enforce the marketability of my new product.

But they still play with the nCodes. Maybe because the k Factors are truly different and Jim and Pete don't like them.

or maybe because it has Roger's name on the k90 and they are too vain being former #1s.

[MordredSJT]

Perhaps it is because senior tour players who do no real marketing work for Wilson anymore are not very high on their free racquet priority list. They are giving them all to the players actually playing on tour. I'm sure eventually you will see Sampras and Courier with K-Factor paintjobs.

[nBladed]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

You're absolutely right. Federer did help to design his current racquet and he probably did go through many molds and prototypes. However, all of this happened in 2002 when he switched from the PS 6.0 85 to his current racquet. He's been using the same racquet ever since.

2002?

Are you sure he was that spot on in the design process? Fed was still pretty much a nobody. He only had three titles in 2002.

Didn't Wilson at that time say that the PStour 90 was designed for Pete Sampras and Roger Federer?

This question is to everyone:
If you understand anything about business, it gets super expensive to keep molds and make one shots of old stock. You make money in bulk.

Why do you think Wilson tried to phase out the PS6.0 85 so many times? Not enough critical demand. But there was enough of a demand so I am sure they cost the costs somewhere.... which ended up being a different manufacturing process.

I am only approaching this from a economics standpoint of supply vs. demand.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO TRULY KNOWS WHAT RACKET COMPANIES KEEP ON HAND TO SATISFY THEIR PLAYER'S OLDER RACKET NEEDS?

I refuse to believe that Head, Wilson, etc. will just say to any player, "Oh you are using this racket from 1993 that is no longer in production but you are the only person on Earth with this special request and guess what....? we will remanufacture 15 or more of them for you for thousands of dollars (because that's how much it will cost for that limited supply) just to keep you happy and somewhere in the top 50 where your name recognition means diddly to our overall worldwide sales.

anyone in top 5 becomes a different story.

heck Prince didn't even make a special racket for James Blake. What does that say about their economics?

[vsbabolat]

Originally Posted by nBladed

2002?

Are you sure he was that spot on in the design process? Fed was still pretty much a nobody. He only had three titles in 2002.

Didn't Wilson at that time say that the PStour 90 was designed for Pete Sampras and Roger Federer?

This question is to everyone:
If you understand anything about business, it gets super expensive to keep molds and make one shots of old stock. You make money in bulk.

Why do you think Wilson tried to phase out the PS6.0 85 so many times? Not enough critical demand. But there was enough of a demand so I am sure they cost the costs somewhere.... which ended up being a different manufacturing process.

I am only approaching this from a economics standpoint of supply vs. demand.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO TRULY KNOWS WHAT RACKET COMPANIES KEEP ON HAND TO SATISFY THEIR PLAYER'S OLDER RACKET NEEDS?

I refuse to believe that Head, Wilson, etc. will just say to any player, "Oh you are using this racket from 1993 that is no longer in production but you are the only person on Earth with this special request and guess what....? we will remanufacture 15 or more of them for you for thousands of dollars (because that's how much it will cost for that limited supply) just to keep you happy and somewhere in the top 50 where your name recognition means diddly to our overall worldwide sales.

anyone in top 5 becomes a different story.

heck Prince didn't even make a special racket for James Blake. What does that say about their economics?

HEAD is a bad example because most of the Players they sponsor use either a Pro Tour 630, LM Instinct, or Prestige Classic 600. With HEAD they still manufacture 50,000 racquets in Kennelbach, Austria for the players on Tour ONLY. While to cut cost they outsource all of the consumer production in China.

Wilson has not changed molds for a really long time. Wilson still uses the PSC 6.1 95 mold for today's K6-1 95. Also the mold for the Pro Staff Tour 90, N6-1 Tour 90, and K6-1 Tour 90 are the same. The only change for the K6-1 Tour 90 was the shorter pallet and a different drill pattern.

Federer racquets are the same mold as before. Now whether or not the layup has changed on his racquets only Federer, Nate Ferguson, and Wilson know.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by nBladed

drakulie,

you didn't disprove my 'shank' theory. It was one match you are observing. And you are comparing Fed to Nadal in shanks per that match when that was never in contention.

It *IS* in contention as I was referring to the final on clay Nadal and he recently played. As I stated, immediately after that match there were several threads started in which the OP and several other responding began stating Fed "shanked" many balls, and therefore concluded he needed to switch to a larger racquet. As I already pointed out>> he shanked just as many balls as his opponent.

Originally Posted by nBladed

WE HAVE ALL DEMOED RACKETS. How many times have you shanked balls with a new racket.

Lots, regardless of it is a new racquet or not. And anyone saying they never shank balls with "their old racquet" is an absolute liar. Everyone shanks balls. Even pros.

Originally Posted by nBladed

I am watching the Fed v. Ferrer match now and Fed just shanked another one. It's not like he hasn't played on clay before?!

Your point is what? Just to confirm he shanked a ball? NEWSFLASH>>> EVERYONE SHANKS BALLS.

[nBladed]

Drakulie,

you don't get it or you are not hearing what I am saying Mr. Newsflash!

Of course you can shank balls with your old racket. But the more familiar you become with equipment, the less that possibility arises.

Y'know I don't care what your conversation is with previous people here. I was never part of your Nadal v. Fed shank match or if he should switch to a larger head "BS". I was never part of it so please leave you laundry back there.

He shanked WAY more balls than Ferrer in this match! What about that? Why don't you rewind the tape, watch it again 3x and tell me how many shanks there were?

I am shocked that you may perceive that Federer is not mishitting more than usual. That was my only opinion in MY POST.

[Mick]

You and drakulie are quite good tennis observers. I cannot tell if a player has shranked a ball from watching it on tv.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by nBladed

2002?

Are you sure he was that spot on in the design process? Fed was still pretty much a nobody. He only had three titles in 2002.

Didn't Wilson at that time say that the PStour 90 was designed for Pete Sampras and Roger Federer?

This question is to everyone:
If you understand anything about business, it gets super expensive to keep molds and make one shots of old stock. You make money in bulk.

Why do you think Wilson tried to phase out the PS6.0 85 so many times? Not enough critical demand. But there was enough of a demand so I am sure they cost the costs somewhere.... which ended up being a different manufacturing process.

I am only approaching this from a economics standpoint of supply vs. demand.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO TRULY KNOWS WHAT RACKET COMPANIES KEEP ON HAND TO SATISFY THEIR PLAYER'S OLDER RACKET NEEDS?

I refuse to believe that Head, Wilson, etc. will just say to any player, "Oh you are using this racket from 1993 that is no longer in production but you are the only person on Earth with this special request and guess what....? we will remanufacture 15 or more of them for you for thousands of dollars (because that's how much it will cost for that limited supply) just to keep you happy and somewhere in the top 50 where your name recognition means diddly to our overall worldwide sales.

anyone in top 5 becomes a different story.

heck Prince didn't even make a special racket for James Blake. What does that say about their economics?

Wilson was already doing special things for Federer that they weren't really doing for other lower-ranked pros in 2002 because they knew that Federer was expected to be the next big thing and he had already beaten Sampras at Wimbledon, which not too many players can say they've ever done. First, Federer was the only pro to use a PS 6.0 85 with a red paintjob made to look like a HPS 6.0 95 Tour (Euro model) in early 2002. Then later in 2002, they gave him the PS Tour 90 still painted red to look like the same HPS 6.0 95 Tour. Then they custom drilled his PS Tour 90 with wider string spacing in the middle and gave him the shorter handle pallet. he's been using the same racquet ever since.

Wilson tried to phase out the PS 6.0 85 not because of the lack of demand (look at how many TW sells and how fast they sell out), but because it is the most expensive racquet for Wilson to make, thus, their margins are very low. It uses very costly graphite braiding manufacturing techniques and also contains 20% kevlar, which is very expensive. The newer racquets can be made much more cheaply because they contain much less of the good expensive stuff, but a lot of filler. That's why older racquets tend to feel so much better and smoother than most of the newer racquets.

And Prince is making a special racquet for Blake. He couldn't use any of their existing racquets nor the O-Port technology. So Prince is basically copying his current Dunlop-mold racquet and making it a Prince model. It should feel and play almost like his current racquet. This new model is due out at retail soon.

BTW, if Bosworth can make custom racquets for a few hundred dollars each, so can Wilson or Head and probably much cheaper.

[jakshemash]

tennezsport, where did you string fed's k90

[jelle v]

Originally Posted by drakulie

see above post.

So you're trying to prove your point based on judging one match of many? I'm not only saying that he is shanking a lot of forehands, I'm also saying that even during and since the AO his forehand has simply been off. He's is missing a lot of them. He especially has been hitting a lot of forehand long.

[nBladed]

Breakpoint,

thanks for the explanation. I am starting to understand that their a lot about tennis manufacturing that I don't know. I keep thinking that to make a graphite racket involves braiding graphite materials that when you drill a hole into would chip like crazy and be nearly unusable.

[haerdalis]

Federer is actually shanking less now than he was a few years ago, much less. The difference is that as of late he has been shanking forehands. We can only speculate as to why but I doubt it is because of the racquet.
I havent really looked closely at his kfactor racquet but I have noticed that kfactor 90's have a thicker beam than the tour 90's, especially so in the direction of the strings.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by nBladed

He shanked WAY more balls than Ferrer in this match! What about that? Why don't you rewind the tape, watch it again 3x and tell me how many shanks there were?

Didn't watch the match. Shanked balls or not >>> he won.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by jelle v

So you're trying to prove your point based on judging one match of many? I'm not only saying that he is shanking a lot of forehands, I'm also saying that even during and since the AO his forehand has simply been off. He's is missing a lot of them. He especially has been hitting a lot of forehand long.

You must of wathced a different AO than I did this year. He was absolutely killing the ball. If he would have been shanking so many balls, or mishitting, or hitting so many shorts balls during that tournament he would have paid the price and at minimum dropped a set. He didn't.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by bluegrasser

I can think of a least three tour players that come to mind - Hewitt, that up and coming American kid who is originally from Serbia I think, also saw a French player using a 90 Prestige.

Hewitt I already mentioned (the other 90 user). Some claim the 93 of head is a 90, I don't know. TW lists the PC600 as a 93. 93 is not the same as 90.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Hewitt I already mentioned (the other 90 user). Some claim the 93 of head is a 90, I don't know. TW lists the PC600 as a 93. 93 is not the same as 90.

I'm guessing that's because you've never actually held a PC600 in your hands? It is actually 89.5 sq. in. I've held one against my nCode 90 and the PC600's head was smaller.

[BreakPoint]

BTW, that "other 90 user", Hewitt, nearly ended Nadal's 80 match winning streak on the slowest of red clay at Hamburg today. So much for 90 sq. in. racquets being useless on clay.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

BTW, that "other 90 user", Hewitt, nearly ended Nadal's 80 match winning streak on the slowest of red clay at Hamburg today. So much for 90 sq. in. racquets being useless on clay.

How do you know he would not have won it if he had used a 95?

On Monday, you can look at this way - two 90 guys challenged Nadal, one in semifinal and one in final, but both lost.

Hopefully not. I really want Federer to pull of this one. If he gets hammered again, he might just as well skip the FO.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

I'm guessing that's because you've never actually held a PC600 in your hands? It is actually 89.5 sq. in. I've held one against my nCode 90 and the PC600's head was smaller.

Agreed. No way the Prestige is 93. I hadn't realized the head was a 90 until playing with the tour for the first a few weeks back. It is actually a tiny bit smaller than the K90.