Karsten Braasch vs. Serena and Venus

[WildVolley]

Your friends are goofballs. The physical difference in strength and quickness between men and women is vast.

I remember when Jackie Joyner Kersee, the famous American heptathlete, was considered the greatest woman athlete. As a skinny white high school track athlete, I could have beaten her in a number of events. So one of the greatest women athletes of all time, could have been beaten by a good, but not brilliant, high school male athlete.

Tell your friends to watch some tennis. It is obvious that the women don't cover the court or hit anywhere near as quickly as the men do.

[krz]

Williams play a power game... sure it works against women but when they play a guy there biggest strength is now a weakness.

[AM28143]

It is a simple, offensive, but accurate fact: Men are better at sports than women. My sister has been playing tennis for 6 years. She has taken lessons, she has played in tournaments and trains all summer. On the contrary, I've been playing for about a year with no formal training. Yesterday I bet her 200 bucks she could not beat me in a one set match. She accept the challenge and guess what? I whooped her 6-2. She hits a nice ball however, I'm fast enough to chase down everything. She has no weapon to beat me. I do not think she even hit one winner throughout the match. My sister, as should all women, learned the simple fact that she is inferior in regards to sports.

[KFwinds]

Yeah, your "friends" don't know what they are talking about; neither Williams sister (and don't get me wrong, I think they are fantastic female players) could beat any of the top 1500 male players, which of course would include the top NCAA men, and world-ranked juniors.

It's very simple; the men hit harder and make less errors.

[KFwinds]

I've also got another story to back this up;

A former pro at my club who was once in the top 80 in the world and has a win against Brad Gilbert (when Gilbert was #4) told us that he once got a call from Martina Navratilova's people to arrange a practice with her. This was in the 80's, of course, when she was in her prime. When he showed up he was specifically instructed not to beat her in any practice set, which he ignored and promptly spanked her. He ended up not getting paid for the practice - stiffed by Martina!

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Originally Posted by AM28143

It is a simple, offensive, but accurate fact: Men are better at sports than women. My sister has been playing tennis for 6 years. She has taken lessons, she has played in tournaments and trains all summer. On the contrary, I've been playing for about a year with no formal training. Yesterday I bet her 200 bucks she could not beat me in a one set match. She accept the challenge and guess what? I whooped her 6-2. She hits a nice ball however, I'm fast enough to chase down everything. She has no weapon to beat me. I do not think she even hit one winner throughout the match. My sister, as should all women, learned the simple fact that she is inferior in regards to sports.

...Not insulting your sis at all, but have you ever considered the reason she could not win may be due to a lack of that intangible thing percieved as superior talent? Training and on-court experience alone does not walk hand-in-hand with success, unless one is lucky (read: Sharapova, Roddick). Think about it: if Venus, Serena, Federer or the rubber-room-case Henin lacked talent, all of the training in the world would not have produced their history, Similarly, certain top 20 males (minus the luck factor) seem to have training/experience but fail to earn the slams. Superior talent may be the difference, and a reason your sister could not beat you.

[helloworld]

Originally Posted by AM28143

It is a simple, offensive, but accurate fact: Men are better at sports than women. My sister has been playing tennis for 6 years. She has taken lessons, she has played in tournaments and trains all summer. On the contrary, I've been playing for about a year with no formal training. Yesterday I bet her 200 bucks she could not beat me in a one set match. She accept the challenge and guess what? I whooped her 6-2. She hits a nice ball however, I'm fast enough to chase down everything. She has no weapon to beat me. I do not think she even hit one winner throughout the match. My sister, as should all women, learned the simple fact that she is inferior in regards to sports.

Dude, your sister must really suck at tennis. At your level, men and women can play against each other competitively since they both will make unforced errors all over the place, but at pro level, they don't make unforced errors like beginners anymore, and hence physical ability is what determines the outcome of the match.

[looseswing]

http://www.dispatch.co.za/1998/01/28/sport/WILLIAMS.HTM

Here is the Williams-Braasch article

[sureshs]

I can beat the Williams sisters.

But then I would be arrested if I did that.

[Janne]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I can beat the Williams sisters.

But then I would be arrested if I did that.

Yeah, you would be called a racist.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by looseswing

http://www.dispatch.co.za/1998/01/28/sport/WILLIAMS.HTM

Here is the Williams-Braasch article

"Against anyone in the top 500, no chance," Braasch said, "because I was playing like 600 today."

Ouch!

Keep in mind that Serena and Venus were 17 and 18 years old at the time. They are much better players now, with tons of experience and majors titles on their mantles. Given that, I'm sure if they played the #203 ranked player today the game scores would be...6-2, 6-2-very little difference.

[Moose Malloy]

. I remember a few years back J Mac/Steffi played Serena/??? in Wimbledon mixed and Mac hit her a kick serve. She got ate up by the serve and had to deflect it with her hand.

I'm pretty sure this match never happened.

Venus & Serena only talked about playing or beating men when they first joined the tour, they certainly don't think they can do so today. I remember a few years ago Serena saying that her male practice partner could get to any shot she hit & had no problem returning her serve, saying that none of the girls on tour could do that. I doubt he is on the pro tour.

to the op: venus & serena have been quoted as being big fans of sampras & federer, saying that they would lose to them '6-0,6-0 forever'
if you want you can show that there isn't that much ability between the 1 & 20 guy on tour(using results), so if Serena or Venus said that about Sampras, what does that mean about how they'd fare against the #20 guy?

also davenport said she can't beat her husband & capriati said she can't beat her brother. neither played on the pro tour.

tennis is always underated by the non-tennis playing public athletically. probably since it doesn't involve contact & that the playing field is so small compared to team sports(so they assume speed probably doesn't make as much of a difference)
plus going by appearances, venus & serena have bigger muscles than quite a few guys on the atp, so an uneducated viewer may think, she's stronger, so why can't she beat them? in team sports, that kind of muscle mass difference usually means the athlete is better, so its hard for them to really 'get' tennis. plus it is a sport that is 90% white, while the majority of nfl/nba is black, so there may be some subconcious feelings coming through(like if its a sport being played just by white guys, how good can they be? why can't the sisters beat them? etc etc.)

anyway, not sure why you care what they think, they can't be the first people you've encountered that feel this way?

[jorel]

Originally Posted by laschutz

okay, so i'm at work the other day arguing with these idiots who don't know anything about tennis, onlyplayed it during p.e.in high school, and when the william sisters name came up,one of them said that he thought the william sisters could possibly beat like "the number 20 ranked man?! are you fricking kidding me i told him? they couldn't beat the number 200 ranked man, they couldn't beat the ncaa men's champ, and they couldn't beat the top 18 under junior u.s. champ either!

i've been myself playing since i was 9, played in high school and college,read every tennis magazine for 30 years now, watch every tennis tournament on tv, have been to many pro tournaments in person,i've taught tennis at summer camps (i'm not a certified pro, but i could be if i wanted to) and consider myself a amateur tennis historian, and these idiots still 1)couldn't believe me 2) said it was just my opinion and their entitled to their opinion 3) and just because i knew tennis history didn't make me a tennis expert? huh !!

i gave them the reasons why in terms of yes the williams sisters hit their serve for instance as hard as many of the men, but guess what there are probably 50 or more guys who can serve the ball just as hard, so when the sisters serve to a guy he could return it, where as what if any of these men serve to the sisters? also, men hit their groundstrokes harder and faster, since their naturally stronger,

i gave them historic background matches even such as: in the 1920's tilden def lenglen 6-0, in the 1950's maureen connolly practice against men to make her better and that in an article published in the new york times she said she lost the other day to a local pro that no one had ever heard of, in chris evert's autobiography she wrote when she was number 1 she got beat easily by her younger brother who only played college tennis, in 1993 when an over the hill j.connors played a soon to be retired from singles navratilova he gave her the doubles alleys and only 1 serve for himself and he still killed her, i even described the whole king vs riggs and riggs vs court matches and why the outcomes ( and yeah, i don't sound like a tennis expert?!!!), i told them go on any tennis website message board and ask how the william sisters would do against men and 100 people who know tennis (former and current players, judges, commentators would agree with me!) their answer was well until the day that they play against a man then everyone i just mentioned is just their opinion!!!!! well, when the heck does an opinion become a fact then? especially since this event will never happen?

they countered with the william sisters hit the ball and are more athletic than the women i mentioned ( evert,connolly,etc) which i agreed but guess what men today also hit the ball harder than men in previous eras so the power disparity is still there! i don't know if these guys are just stupid, stubborn or both? the one guy said " let's say i'm a car expert and i say your honda civic is the best car in the world would you automatically agree with me? i said " well, if you know about cars then i do, give me data and reasoning and others agreed with you then yes, i would say your right!" his reply?: well, your more trusting than more people.huh?. one of the men whose black said " well years ago they used to say black people were inferior to white people and we know that's not true! HUH? what does that have to do with what i/we were discussing, i told him "well, that was caused by stupid loser white racist who wanted to promote their own ideology.

they really cracked up when i told them years ago when i played in high school ( i was top 16 in the state of of illinois and st.louis all area team) and during when i played in college that i could have HIT with the william sisters, they fell off their chairs then! what the heck, i told them you don't know how good i was or how hard i could hit the ball back then, could i have beaten them of course not, could i get a game off them? if i was lucky, but i COULD rally with them, they didn't believe that either!!

so basically the argument ended with my opinion and their opinion and their entitled to it, which i thought " even if it's wrong". i said finally the only men the william sisters would be competive with is if they played the 18 under u.s. junior boy champ and i would still go with him winning!!sorry to go on and on but somebody help me out here, what else could i have said to prove my point?

didnt read your whole post but the sisters even said once that they would get destroyed by men... they cited the mens serve as the biggest hurdle....

[AM28143]

Originally Posted by THUNDERVOLLEY

...Not insulting your sis at all, but have you ever considered the reason she could not win may be due to a lack of that intangible thing percieved as superior talent? Training and on-court experience alone does not walk hand-in-hand with success, unless one is lucky (read: Sharapova, Roddick). Think about it: if Venus, Serena, Federer or the rubber-room-case Henin lacked talent, all of the training in the world would not have produced their history, Similarly, certain top 20 males (minus the luck factor) seem to have training/experience but fail to earn the slams. Superior talent may be the difference, and a reason your sister could not beat you.

Yes, but I'm far from talented either. Just yesterday I was riding my bike and I did not notice how acute the turn of the road was and I rode my bike right into a tree. No joke. My sister and I both lack great coordination. I beat her because I'm fast and do not miss that much for a newbie. She does not have the physical strength to get the pace required to hit a winner. If she was as strong as I am, she would have just blown shots by me left and right. Women are weaker than men and therefore inferior when it comes to sports.

[Dolphina]

Originally Posted by AM28143

It is a simple, offensive, but accurate fact: Men are better at sports than women. My sister has been playing tennis for 6 years. She has taken lessons, she has played in tournaments and trains all summer. On the contrary, I've been playing for about a year with no formal training. Yesterday I bet her 200 bucks she could not beat me in a one set match. She accept the challenge and guess what? I whooped her 6-2. She hits a nice ball however, I'm fast enough to chase down everything. She has no weapon to beat me. I do not think she even hit one winner throughout the match. My sister, as should all women, learned the simple fact that she is inferior in regards to sports.

On amateur level women can compete with men. I´ve mostly always played with men, and I regularly beat a man, that was 20 years older than me, so in his 40s, often easily 6-2, depending on my form. It was simply because, he sucked at sports. But I also can well compete with my uncles, and with some players my age, and I never had a real trainer, nor do I play very much. I think I would have problems against a guy at my level, and probably be beaten, and that´s what happens in sports, if men compete against women their level, and that´s why they´re separated.
Didn´t Serena say at Wimbly, that she only hits with guys, who can beat her (no top pro players) to prepare for matches. I also remember darkly that she played a fun match against some royal amateur player (who was that again?) at the Laureus awards and lost 7-5 in the third.

[Fedexeon]

Serena's latest photo.

[illinoisTennis]

I brought this and pay topic with my philosophy instructor. She agreed that men and women are physically different and draw comparisons with NBA and WNBA.
She mentioned that women are slowly catching up in strength and stamina.

In regards to equal pay, she says even though WTA players draw less crowd or boring they needed to compensated equally because its about time , she is a feminist.

[VaBeachTennis]

Originally Posted by looseswing

http://www.dispatch.co.za/1998/01/28/sport/WILLIAMS.HTM

Here is the Williams-Braasch article

Thanks for the WHOLE story! The girls were still.......................girls, 16 & 17 years old. I bet they would have better success now than then against men in the 250's or 300's. I know that they would smoke all if not all of the men that are posting here and putting them down.

[VaBeachTennis]

Originally Posted by Janne

Yeah, you would be called a racist.

Why do you ASSume that he would be called a racist???

[Bodacious DVT]

i think they misunderstood the arguement. the william sisters are men. just kidding of course.

women's tennis is at the same level as men's D1 or D2

on the otherhand, there was that one match were billie jean king played whats his name. i think she won too.