To Bend or Not to Bend?

[Supernatural_Serve]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

I am talking about out-balls. If you played enough, then you'd surely agree with me.

In this scenario, by definition, the point isn't over until you catch it and doing so means you never let it bounce. You lose the point unless your opponent lets you get away with a rule violation. Which is his choice, not yours.

Get into an argument? Call a tournament official over? Tell him your tale. Everyone agrees it was sailing out 10 feet. Guess what? The tournament official will rule against you and tell you not to do it again. I have been playing a long time. I know exactly how that scenario ends.

If you and I were playing, I would give you the point and ask you not to do it again, and if you did it again, I would consider it disrespectful and gamesmanship and not give you the point even if it was sailing out 20 feet. Why should any opponent put up with it?

The illogical and irrational part of your post is that you expect opponents to simply allow you to violate the rules. Nobody is obligated to do so.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by Supernatural_Serve

In this scenario, by definition, the point isn't over until you catch it and doing so means you never let it bounce. You lose the point unless your opponent lets you get away with a rule violation. Which is his choice, not yours.

I think the point of this whole thread is when your opponent catches the ball (or similar) and the decision lies in your hands - not the other way around. I don't think anyone feels entitled to the call.

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by Supernatural_Serve

In this scenario, by definition, the point isn't over until you catch it and doing so means you never let it bounce. You lose the point unless your opponent lets you get away with a rule violation. Which is his choice, not yours.

Get into an argument? Call a tournament official over? Tell him your tale. Everyone agrees it was sailing out 10 feet. Guess what? The tournament official will rule against you and tell you not to do it again. I have been playing a long time. I know exactly how that scenario ends.

If you and I were playing, I would give you the point and ask you not to do it again, and if you did it again, I would consider it disrespectful and gamesmanship and not give you the point even if it was sailing out 20 feet. Why should any opponent put up with it?

The illogical and irrational part of your post is that you expect opponents to simply allow you to violate the rules. Nobody is obligated to do so.

Why the hell would anyone "do it again" when asked not to? (Are you deluded?) Stop posting situations which allow you to pat yourself on the back.

[randomname]

out of curiosity, do you rule sticklers always obey the speed limit no matter what? I'm guessing no, and it seems a little crazy that people are more anal about following the rules of a GAME than they are about following laws

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by Supernatural_Serve

Get into an argument? Call a tournament official over? Tell him your tale. Everyone agrees it was sailing out 10 feet. Guess what? The tournament official will rule against you and tell you not to do it again. I have been playing a long time. I know exactly how that scenario ends.

The officials are there to enforce the rules, period. You've got that right. But try to be less thick, and understand that if the ball is obviously "landing out" in everyone's perspective, and you claim that point from your opponents, then that's just abusing the rule, and I'm SURE everyone on that specific court will most likely not want to play with you again or even shake your hand afterwards. You do have common sense to understand that it's wrong, don't you? That rule wasn't made to be used to cheat your opponents out of a point by strictly enforcing it 100% of the time. Would you claim that point, or call a let, if your ball went 2 courts down and someone caught it mid-air? I mean, it was never allowed to bounce even though it had no chance in hell of boomeranging itself back onto your court. Somehow, judging by your posts, I'm sure you would.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by randomname

out of curiosity, do you rule sticklers always obey the speed limit no matter what? I'm guessing no, and it seems a little crazy that people are more anal about following the rules of a GAME than they are about following laws

Well said! I think the basic issue here is that there are rules to every sport that need to be followed to define and allow competition for a fair game. That said, most sports have umpires, referees, and officials to call the game for them - unlike tennis which relys on the players to make the calls (at least at the amateur level). You do run into some more unusual situations in tennis than other sports - at least in my opinion.

A couple of examples of this that are on the unusual side:

- I can call a foot fault on my opponent
- I can penalize the opponent for catching the ball
- I can give my opponent a LET pretty much anytime I want to

These require ME to call the infraction or offer the play over

- I CAN'T call a double bounce on my opponent (even if it is clear)
- I CAN'T call them for crossing over the net (even if it is clear)
- I'm pretty sure (please correct me if I'm wrong) that I can't even call them for HITTING the net

These require them to acknowledge the infraction occurred.

Line calls are called by the person receiving the shot - but can be deferred to the opponent, however the opponent may call his OWN shot OUT - except on first serves.

While all these rules are important to fair play and probably should be enforced strictly in tourneys, especially at the highest levels of play - there are a lot of new players trying to get their heads around the game and a good sportsman offers at least a little latitude (perhaps a warning on the first offense or misunderstanding).

My opinion anyway.

[Hooooon]

Originally Posted by fe6250

Well said! I think the basic issue here is that there are rules to every sport that need to be followed to define and allow competition for a fair game. That said, most sports have umpires, referees, and officials to call the game for them - unlike tennis which relys on the players to make the calls (at least at the amateur level). You do run into some more unusual situations in tennis than other sports - at least in my opinion.

A couple of examples of this that are on the unusual side:

- I can call a foot fault on my opponent
- I can penalize the opponent for catching the ball
- I can give my opponent a LET pretty much anytime I want to

These require ME to call the infraction or offer the play over

- I CAN'T call a double bounce on my opponent (even if it is clear)
- I CAN'T call them for crossing over the net (even if it is clear)
- I'm pretty sure (please correct me if I'm wrong) that I can't even call them for HITTING the net

These require them to acknowledge the infraction occurred.

Line calls are called by the person receiving the shot - but can be deferred to the opponent, however the opponent may call his OWN shot OUT - except on first serves.

While all these rules are important to fair play and probably should be enforced strictly in tourneys, especially at the highest levels of play - there are a lot of new players trying to get their heads around the game and a good sportsman offers at least a little latitude (perhaps a warning on the first offense or misunderstanding).

My opinion anyway.

you cannot call footfaults on an opponent, and the player who stops the ball before it bounces has to admit doing so (not necessarily agree with the rule)

[Commando Tennis Shorts]

I was too lazy to read past page 1, but. . .

I want to know where you guys play where if you don't catch the ball, it flies over the fence. I have never played anywhere against anybody where the back fence was no higher than my shoulders (which is where the fence would have to be to be able to catch a ball over your head that "was going to go over the fence," as several people here have put it.).
!
Besides that, I can't really think of any rules that I would even think of bending, be it foot faults or touching the net, etc.

The rules are there for a reason. There are not unreasonable, and if you bend them when you play with me, you can bet I will call you on them. Call me a hard***** for that, but the only way to avoid ambiguity and confusion is to follow the rules.

And as a final thought: There is absolutely no no no no no reason for you to catch the ball, even if it is flying out. Oh, no! If you don't catch the ball, you'll have to walk an extra six or seven feet to get it! That is just too much to ask. . . (note the sarcasm)

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by randomname

out of curiosity, do you rule sticklers always obey the speed limit no matter what? I'm guessing no, and it seems a little crazy that people are more anal about following the rules of a GAME than they are about following laws

LOL! (10 Char.)

[Supernatural_Serve]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

Would you claim that point, or call a let, if your ball went 2 courts down and someone caught it mid-air? I mean, it was never allowed to bounce even though it had no chance in hell of boomeranging itself back onto your court. Somehow, judging by your posts, I'm sure you would.

No. There are rules governing when a third party makes contact with a ball. The point is over. Its just as if the ball hit a fence or any other permanent fixture. The person who hit the ball loses the point. Furthermore, it would be difficult for my opponent to offer me a let since in the scenario you described it would be absurd to claim that either of us was hindered.

I lose the point.

You would know the above if you read the rules.

[WBF]

Originally Posted by Hooooon

you cannot call footfaults on an opponent, and the player who stops the ball before it bounces has to admit doing so (not necessarily agree with the rule)

Yes you can. You must warn on the first, search for an official on the second, but on and after the third, you may call footfaults when they occur.

[AlpineCadet]

In all honesty, I'd avoid sticklers, because common sense should prevail when it comes to certain types of calls. No one benefits when certain types of rules are abused and overly enforced.

[onehandbh]

Out of economic necessity I have to catch balls that are going out (including
balls going wide) if I can reach them. I play on top of a skyscraper with no
side fences.

I usually I like to go to the net b/c less I can reach more balls. If it's going
out I just hit it into the net. I usually tell my opponent that I'll be doing this
before the match so that he knows if my volley goes into the net then his
shot was going out and it's my point.

I also play this way on regular courts at sea level. j/k

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by Hooooon

you cannot call footfaults on an opponent, and the player who stops the ball before it bounces has to admit doing so (not necessarily agree with the rule)

Thanks for the clarification! And this goes to the issue a little bit. I've been playing for only 3 years and while I have read the rules, play in a lot of leagues and captain teams there are rules I'm still learning and I can't keep all of them straight! That's why I'm a little hesitant to enforce some of the things fully.

I guess I have a lot to learn about this game still!

[Hooooon]

Originally Posted by WBF

Yes you can. You must warn on the first, search for an official on the second, but on and after the third, you may call footfaults when they occur.

not in socal

[tennis-n-sc]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

then it's generally accepted that it is 100% OKAY to intercept the ball.

It is accepted at the Saturday morning social, sometimes.

If you want to strictly talk about the USTA rules,

Nope, I think we are talking about the Rules of Tennis, to which USTA adheres.

But that specific rule was invented to prevent players from obstructing the ball from bouncing--cheating your opponents out of a decent/fair call.

Please provide us a source of why the rule was "invented".

But if everyone knows that the LONG-SAILING NO-CHANCE-IN-H*LL ball is going to land outside the lines, then it is logically/rationally accepted that it is fine to stop a sailing "out" ball.

Everyone I know is under the correct impression that the ball is in play until it lands out, then it is called out.

If you want to argue against this, then there is obviously a hitch in your logic. I am talking about out-balls. If you played enough, then you'd surely agree with me. Other than that, and politics aside, I don't see how you can argue against this point and get away with it.

I believe I have played more tennis than you and I am sure that I have officiated many more matches than you and I can emphatically say that your argument is immature, disrespectful foolishness.

[/quote]

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by tennis-n-sc

It is accepted at the Saturday morning social, sometimes.



Nope, I think we are talking about the Rules of Tennis, to which USTA adheres.




Please provide us a source of why the rule was "invented".




Everyone I know is under the correct impression that the ball is in play until it lands out, then it is called out.



I believe I have played more tennis than you and I am sure that I have officiated many more matches than you and I can emphatically say that your argument is immature, disrespectful foolishness.

I would obviously call those balls "out" before I would stop them, but when you are well beyond the baseline, some of those balls are just BLATANTLY OUT. It's just common sense to not take that point away from your opponent if they stop the ball. For this specific situation, I will honestly say that if you claim that point, you are using that rule the wrong way, and need some common sense.

[Hooooon]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

I would obviously call those balls "out" before I would stop them, but when you are well beyond the baseline, some of those balls are just BLATANTLY OUT. It's just common sense to not take that point away from your opponent if they stop the ball. For this specific situation, I will honestly say that if you claim that point, you are using that rule the wrong way, and need some common sense.

watch any football today? was that 12 man on the field penalty "oppressive" because the guy was running off the field? no, it's a rule damnit. if any sport wants respect, it's rules need to be respected. maybe you like tennis players perceived as pansies... if not, don't question tennis

[AlpineCadet]

Wow, I guess you're right. Don't know what I'll do now that I've read your opinion on the matter. Think I'll go eat some ice cream with the girls and try to be happy again.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by Hooooon

watch any football today? was that 12 man on the field penalty "oppressive" because the guy was running off the field? no, it's a rule damnit. if any sport wants respect, it's rules need to be respected. maybe you like tennis players perceived as pansies... if not, don't question tennis

They're pros and lives and careers are on the line - big difference!