Transition from 3.5 to 4.0 doubles

[oldhacker]

OP - Just in case you are feeling daunted by the stories of massive serves, punishing returns, put-away volleys all executed consistantly well at 4.0 level here is a video of real 4.0 League doubles players at work.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4S-V...eature=channel

It really does not look too scary to me. The serves are nothing special, the returns look pretty average, there are plenty of UE's from the baseline and net, the teamwork and movement looks somewhat modest and there is a notable lack of S&V and transitioning to the net by the baseline players.

If you have been doing well at the level below this and are moving up I am sure you will be fine and you will quickly note and adapt to the differences. From watching the video I would say that if you work an placing your serve with moderate pace, volleying, overheads and getting into the net behind at least your first serve and after weaker serves when returning you should do fine at that level.

[Nellie]

Often, a 4.0 player is a 3.5 player who is better shape and can, therefore, move better.

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by oldhacker

OP - Just in case you are feeling daunted by the stories of massive serves, punishing returns, put-away volleys all executed consistantly well at 4.0 level here is a video of real 4.0 League doubles players at work.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4S-V...eature=channel

It really does not look too scary to me. The serves are nothing special, the returns look pretty average, there are plenty of UE's from the baseline and net, the teamwork and movement looks somewhat modest and there is a notable lack of S&V and transitioning to the net by the baseline players.

If you have been doing well at the level below this and are moving up I am sure you will be fine and you will quickly note and adapt to the differences. From watching the video I would say that if you work an placing your serve with moderate pace, volleying, overheads and getting into the net behind at least your first serve and after weaker serves when returning you should do fine at that level.

I agree. These guys don't look like the 4.0s I am used to seeing. But even given their skill level, they don't look all that interested in the match they are playing. Anyone will look less skilled than they really are when they aren't trying their best. Standing straight up as the netman, lackluster footwork etc. Poor example for the OP IMO.

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by oldhacker

OP - Just in case you are feeling daunted by the stories of massive serves, punishing returns, put-away volleys all executed consistantly well at 4.0 level here is a video of real 4.0 League doubles players at work.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4S-V...eature=channel

It really does not look too scary to me. The serves are nothing special, the returns look pretty average, there are plenty of UE's from the baseline and net, the teamwork and movement looks somewhat modest and there is a notable lack of S&V and transitioning to the net by the baseline players.

If you have been doing well at the level below this and are moving up I am sure you will be fine and you will quickly note and adapt to the differences. From watching the video I would say that if you work an placing your serve with moderate pace, volleying, overheads and getting into the net behind at least your first serve and after weaker serves when returning you should do fine at that level.

Right. I feel like some responses to this question make it sound like its much worse than it will actually be. I think that alot of 4.0s I've watched (and even some 4.5s) don't look very good when watching from the side, and often times I am surprised that I wouldn't beat them (because they were 1-2 levels higher than me) based on how their game looks. But I realize that being on the court verses watching from the side are two different things. I would bet I can out-power the older 4.0 players on serves and groundies, but they might have better placement and consistency than me I'm guessing.

I just wished I had watched and/or played against a wider variety of 4.0s to really see what the norm is in league play at that level.

[oldhacker]

Hi LuckyR - I believe the subject of the league match videos posted by Maverick has been discussed to death elsewhere. IIRC from those discussions the players shown had winning (or at leasy 50:50) records in league matches at that level and the region was pretty representative so the facts stand to support the case that this is what you may expect to find at 4.0 level. Further I have not seen any other videos of 4.0 matches posted on here or YouTube which would persuade me otherwise. As the saying goes the camera does not lie. There is 4.0 singles coverage of the same match which has been derided by many as not being representative yet the reality is that the player shown has an outstanding record at that level.

As an outsider (not in the US) reading and contributing to the TW forums and keen player of competitive league tennis in the UK I often have a wry smile at some of the over-blown comments posted about the standard of 4.0 league tennis. At the end of the day, irrespective of which country you play in, if you are hammering down well placed 100mph plus serves consistantly, consistantly punishing weaker serves, ruthlessly and consistantly exploiting opponents weaknesses and killing all half makeable volleys then you are at the upper end of the scale of club players which is not a 4.0.

Originally Posted by LuckyR

I agree. These guys don't look like the 4.0s I am used to seeing. But even given their skill level, they don't look all that interested in the match they are playing. Anyone will look less skilled than they really are when they aren't trying their best. Standing straight up as the netman, lackluster footwork etc. Poor example for the OP IMO.

[smoothtennis]

Raiden - let me just also mention btw....

Aside from winning or losing, just playing 4.0 doubles with good teams is waaaaay funner than 3.5 doubles. The points can be really great to play when guys are keeping it in play more.

You are going to have a lot of fun at 4.0!

[oldhacker]

raiden - as someone with a fair amount of experience of playing at about the UK equivalent of 4.0 level league doubles my advice is not to judge the standard or players by looking at individual elements such as serves or groundstrokes. I have seen so many talented younger players coming onto the doubles teams I run who have been convinced of an easy victory based on seeing their opponents groundstrokes and serves in the warm-up. Only to be off court 40 minutes layer following a 1 and 1 loss. You will get lots of wily and very experienced old hacks at that level. They may not have the prettiest strokes but they can place them well, know the angles and positioning and are completely comfortable with getting into the net and volleying to win points. So if you have a big serve and groundies you will need to learn to use them (probably by taking something off the power and concentrating on placement) and working big time on your volleying (both at the net and on the approach), overhead, positioning, where and when to move and teamwork.

Originally Posted by raiden031

Right. I feel like some responses to this question make it sound like its much worse than it will actually be. I think that alot of 4.0s I've watched (and even some 4.5s) don't look very good when watching from the side, and often times I am surprised that I wouldn't beat them (because they were 1-2 levels higher than me) based on how their game looks. But I realize that being on the court verses watching from the side are two different things. I would bet I can out-power the older 4.0 players on serves and groundies, but they might have better placement and consistency than me I'm guessing.

I just wished I had watched and/or played against a wider variety of 4.0s to really see what the norm is in league play at that level.

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by oldhacker

Hi LuckyR - I believe the subject of the league match videos posted by Maverick has been discussed to death elsewhere. IIRC from those discussions the players shown had winning (or at leasy 50:50) records in league matches at that level and the region was pretty representative so the facts stand to support the case that this is what you may expect to find at 4.0 level. Further I have not seen any other videos of 4.0 matches posted on here or YouTube which would persuade me otherwise. As the saying goes the camera does not lie. There is 4.0 singles coverage of the same match which has been derided by many as not being representative yet the reality is that the player shown has an outstanding record at that level.

As an outsider (not in the US) reading and contributing to the TW forums and keen player of competitive league tennis in the UK I often have a wry smile at some of the over-blown comments posted about the standard of 4.0 league tennis. At the end of the day, irrespective of which country you play in, if you are hammering down well placed 100mph plus serves consistantly, consistantly punishing weaker serves, ruthlessly and consistantly exploiting opponents weaknesses and killing all half makeable volleys then you are at the upper end of the scale of club players which is not a 4.0.

Whoa there. I was only tangentially commenting on skill level. I agree 100% that 4.0 is a wide, wide grouping with every variety of skill level within it. I can completely believe that this was a 4.0 league match.

No, my comment was that: "they don't look all that interested in the match they are playing", not that they weren't truly 4.0, or somehow lacked the skill to be 4.0 etc. Same guys playing a match they really cared about would look very different onscreen is my point.