Serve speed cage

[5263]

Originally Posted by drakulie

^^^around that speed range. yes.

If I remember correctly, I actually hit a few the radar registered at 111 - 113, however, when I recorded the video, those serves were out, so I didn't include them.

Yes, I meant about a min of 115.
We should all know that doesn't mean everyday, as sometimes you just hit better or cleaner. Some events Roddick never goes over 141, but we all know he can and has gone over 150. I think it is pretty clear that you can be in the 120s on your good days.

[fruitytennis1]

That is one sick serve drak. If only... Well ill be content with my about 60-80mph twist and topspin serves. I wanna be able to serve like that when im older.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Originally Posted by drakulie

^^^LOL. Don't try it. I did, and came extremely close to hitting the radar. Not worth it, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvs1-q9ip5E

Almost went through the fence.

[aptennis91]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

That is one sick serve drak. If only... Well ill be content with my about 60-80mph twist and topspin serves. I wanna be able to serve like that when im older.

How old are you? If you are older than 16, you should at least give it a go.
60-80mph twist and topspin are still pretty sick.

[fruitytennis1]

Im 15 years old.

[aptennis91]

wow.. I wish I had a 60-80mph kick serve at 15...
But really, at 15, your body is starting to get stronger so there isn't a reason not to try it out. Make sure to watch your shoulder though.. Rotator cuff tear at a young age is a killer.

[fruitytennis1]

I dont use flat serves i just never got it.
My fastest serves which im still tweaking are topspin and slice. I think those top out at around 85-90 just not superconsistant(I like consistant first serves 65% or better) and they dont have the nice kick im used to. I will probably use them on AD side for down the line serves, once i get it atleast. I do know what im talking about when i say my serve speed just to tell you.

[aptennis91]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

I dont use flat serves i just never got it.
My fastest serves which im still tweaking are topspin and slice. I think those top out at around 85-90 just not superconsistant(I like consistant first serves 65% or better) and they dont have the nice kick im used to. I will probably use them on AD side for down the line serves, once i get it atleast. I do know what im talking about when i say my serve speed just to tell you.

I wasn't doubting you at all. You seem to have it all worked out. Although, seeing how you can hit serves at that speed with topspin, i don't think it will be that hard to start bombing flat serves once in a while with some practice.

[fruitytennis1]

No i mean i just cant get em in unless their like 40mph or slower also the twist serve isnt 80mph(I wish it was though) the twist serve is 65mph tops.

Honestly i dont think my serves are gonna get much faster ever, mabey add some mph and some good placement and hopefully a little more kick!!

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

I hit a bunch in the 60somethings that didn't make it, 51 was the slowest that exactly hit the fence.

I had one good run of them that hit about 1' short of the fence, which would be about where the fence would be on a normal 20' from the baseline fence (The one at this school was nearly 22').

Pretty much anything in the 70's hit the fence, 60's could hit or fall short, but would probably hit a 20' fence.

51 was the slowest that hit the fence exactly. I think that one hit because it had a loopier trajectory. I guess that would be like just popping the serve in with a western FH grip.

J

Wow. Pages and pages, since I was last at this thread. Thanks for the work put in Jolly.

As I said in my 2nd post in this thread:

"As to the 40mph, I've never actually tried to measure my minimum speed to hit the back fence (I've never hit one that hasn't hit the back fence...), but I estimate around 40mph, as I've hit mid 60mph serves on radar that VERY easily reach the back fence. My warm ups are sometimes much slower than that, and they easily reach the back fence. (flat) "

I am certainly willing to go with 51mph as a minimum for now. It certainly is NOT the 80-100mph estimates we got from some people! It is, as I said "VERY SLOW". I think differences in our motion/ball may account for some slight difference as well. As a good server like you would know, the QUALITY of the serve hit, makes a huge difference as to the bounce....as I explained in my pm to Raiden, it actually gets fairly difficult, for me, to slow down the ball that much, while still trying to get quality contact and extension.

[fruitytennis1]

What do you mean by quality like the depth/placement ect. I would assume down the t hitting the service line would be the optimal slow serve to hit the fence right??

[raiden031]

Yesterday I had a match and got there early to practice my serves. I served 7 balls six times (42 serves). I counted 6 balls that did not hit the fence on the first bounce despite the fact that I was hitting first serves. The average ball hit the fence at knee height, and a couple of them hit waist height. One ball actually went through the fence and one got stuck in the fence (both at about waist height). I think its weird that I can go from creaming the fence to not even hitting the fence at all on first bounce when hitting first serves. And it doesn't seem like the pace of the ball is dramatically slower, but definitely slower nonetheless.

[5263]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Wow. Pages and pages, since I was last at this thread. Thanks for the work put in Jolly.

As I said in my 2nd post in this thread:

"As to the 40mph, I've never actually tried to measure my minimum speed to hit the back fence (I've never hit one that hasn't hit the back fence...), but I estimate around 40mph, as I've hit mid 60mph serves on radar that VERY easily reach the back fence. My warm ups are sometimes much slower than that, and they easily reach the back fence. (flat) "

I am certainly willing to go with 51mph as a minimum for now. It certainly is NOT the 80-100mph estimates we got from some people! It is, as I said "VERY SLOW". I think differences in our motion/ball may account for some slight difference as well. As a good server like you would know, the QUALITY of the serve hit, makes a huge difference as to the bounce....as I explained in my pm to Raiden, it actually gets fairly difficult, for me, to slow down the ball that much, while still trying to get quality contact and extension.

And this is what I thought you meant from the start. This makes it clear on how you get your ideas of service speed. You are accepting Jollys unadjusted speed taken from quite distance and at a off angle as the slowest.

With any reasonable adjustments, this serve is not close to 50, and clearly not close to your original 40 claim. No offense to Jolly but it is questionable if it was even in the box. Looked long to me and you can see the big cracks in the court that can greatly affect a serve bounce. He also explained that he hit a bunch of them in the unadjusted sixties that did not reach. Only when he changed form did he get one flyer that may have been long, hit a crack or rock, or who know what, did he get one at a unadjusted 51.
A one out of 40 oddball, that is not a normal flat serve attempt, doesn't break a rule of thumb.

I doubt anyone who uses this rule of thumb would have said this serve would qualify as it barely gets any part of the fence. The general idea is that it should be "hitting" the fence solidly, not dribbling barely into the fence. Sorry if that was not clear, but thought it was common sense. Drak's and Jollys vids have both proved that the normal flat serve needs to be above 70 unadjusted, just to reach the fence on one hop and that to hit it solidly and regularly it would be in the 100 range.

[raiden031]

I have a question for those who have knowledge on good serve technique. I'm trying to be careful to word this correctly.

When hitting a hard flat serve, should the racquet motion be such that the racquet is swinging a little bit to the right of my head (such that the head of the racquet swings kinda over my shoulder), or should it be swung directly over top of my head?

One thing I already knew is that I often have a bit of an erratic toss, which explains why sometimes I can crush the ball, and other times I hit it less cleanly and softer. I think I have most of the serve motion pretty good such as the legs, body turn, and back-scratch portions, but I've just been trying to figure out what makes the diff. between between a good serve and a bad serve.

I started experimenting and noticed that when I swing the racquet head directly over my head and can hit harder serves than if its a little to the right over my shoulder. I didn't know if this is not the right way to serve, or basically a no-brainer that you should be doing this. I'm self-taught and watched some FYB videos months ago, but haven't refreshed myself on this. Any help would be useful.

[5263]

Originally Posted by raiden031

I have a question for those who have knowledge on good serve technique. I'm trying to be careful to word this correctly.

When hitting a hard flat serve, should the racquet motion be such that the racquet is swinging a little bit to the right of my head (such that the head of the racquet swings kinda over my shoulder), or should it be swung directly over top of my head?

One thing I already knew is that I often have a bit of an erratic toss, which explains why sometimes I can crush the ball, and other times I hit it less cleanly and softer. I think I have most of the serve motion pretty good such as the legs, body turn, and back-scratch portions, but I've just been trying to figure out what makes the diff. between between a good serve and a bad serve.

I started experimenting and noticed that when I swing the racquet head directly over my head and can hit harder serves than if its a little to the right over my shoulder. I didn't know if this is not the right way to serve, or basically a no-brainer that you should be doing this. I'm self-taught and watched some FYB videos months ago, but haven't refreshed myself on this. Any help would be useful.

Raiden, this is a tough one to explain, as the ball should be over your head, BUT to the side of your shoulder too. This because of the upper body tilt and making room to protect your shoulder rotator cuff area.

Look at Arod serving (Sampras too) from the front and you will see how the upper arm is almost in line with a line from shoulder to shoulder. It would be like if you stood straight up and held your arm out 90 degr to your body, but thru body tilt, you can get this line going nearly straight up. The ball will be sort of over your head, but it is tilted to the side to get the shoulder up.
Does this make sense?

[5263]

look at this link. there will be a vid of andy's serve. the pic before the vid even starts will illustrate what i'm saying about the shoulders and the upper arm creating nearly a straight line a impact. It also shows where the ball will be.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/outd...10.html?page=2

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by raiden031

Yesterday I had a match and got there early to practice my serves. I served 7 balls six times (42 serves). I counted 6 balls that did not hit the fence on the first bounce despite the fact that I was hitting first serves. The average ball hit the fence at knee height, and a couple of them hit waist height. One ball actually went through the fence and one got stuck in the fence (both at about waist height). I think its weird that I can go from creaming the fence to not even hitting the fence at all on first bounce when hitting first serves. And it doesn't seem like the pace of the ball is dramatically slower, but definitely slower nonetheless.

Yeah. I have told you this all along, AND mentioned it in my personal message to you.

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

What do you mean by quality like the depth/placement ect. I would assume down the t hitting the service line would be the optimal slow serve to hit the fence right??

If you're talking to me, send me a PM. I'll explain further...

[fruitytennis1]

Hmm ill just make a new thread on that.
Thanks for the idea Datacipher.

[Kevo]

Originally Posted by 5263

Jolly is one of the
rare ones who can clock a 109 with that set up.

I've hit over 110mph on my speed trac quite often. My best was 115mph. Does that mean I really hit over 130mph? This is with the radar behind the net on the ground. I'm a bit skeptical that the ball is really going 130mph off my racquet, but maybe it is.

I think measuring the ball right off the racquet face accurately is a bit of a tough nut to crack as well, and I don't know that I would agree with that method for use in practical training. I think the ATP does it that way because the numbers are bigger. I mean 100mph is pretty good, but when Roddick or Karlovic crack one above 140mph people really ooh and ahh.

Serve speed is really not that important once you get it to a certain level. If I place even a 95mph(speed trac measured) serve well, it's either a service winner or an ace. An well spun kicker at 80mph on the returner's weaker side is money all day long. I think speed is not worth as much as people think it is.