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10-30-2009, 08:28 AM
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#1 |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,960
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WORLD NO. 1 (by year)
Tennis WORLD NO. 1
Male Singles Player (by year) 1877—Gore 1878—Hadow 1879—Hartley 1880—Hartley 1881—W. Renshaw 1882—W. Renshaw 1883—W. Renshaw 1884—W. Renshaw 1885—W. Renshaw 1886—W. Renshaw 1887—W. Renshaw/Lawford 1888—E. Renshaw 1889—W. Renshaw/Hamilton 1890—Hamilton/Pim 1891—Lewis/Baddeley/Pim 1892—E. Renshaw/Baddeley 1893—Pim 1894—Pim 1895—Pim 1896—Baddeley 1897—R.F. Doherty 1898—R.F. Doherty 1899—R.F. Doherty 1900—R.F. Doherty 1901—Larned 1902—H.L. Doherty 1903—H.L. Doherty 1904—H.L. Doherty 1905—H.L. Doherty 1906—H.L. Doherty 1907—Brookes 1908—Larned 1909—Larned 1910—Larned 1911—Wilding 1912—Wilding 1913—Wilding 1914—McLoughlin 1915—Johnston 1916—Williams 1917—Murray 1918—Murray 1919—Patterson/Johnston 1920—Tilden 1921—Tilden 1922—Tilden/Johnston 1923—Tilden 1924—Tilden 1925—Tilden 1926—Lacoste 1927—Lacoste 1928—Cochet 1929—Cochet 1930—Cochet 1931—Tilden(7)/Vines 1932—Vines 1933—Crawford 1934—Perry 1935—Perry/Vines 1936—Perry/Vines 1937—Perry/Vines(5)/Budge 1938—Budge 1939—Budge 1940—Budge 1941—Perry/Riggs/Kovacs 1942—Budge 1943—Riggs/Kovacs 1944—Kovacs/Riggs 1945—Riggs 1946—Riggs 1947—Riggs(6)/Kramer 1948—Kramer 1949—Kramer 1950—Kramer/Segura 1951—Kramer 1952—Gonzales/Sedgman 1953—Kramer(6)/Segura(2) 1954—Gonzales 1955—Gonzales 1956—Gonzales 1957—Gonzales 1958—Gonzales/Sedgman(2) 1959—Gonzales(7)/Hoad 1960—Rosewall 1961—Rosewall 1962—Rosewall 1963—Rosewall(4) 1964—Laver 1965—Laver 1966—Laver 1967—Laver 1968—Laver 1969—Laver 1970—Laver(7) 1971—Newcombe 1972—Smith 1973—Nastase 1974—Connors 1975—Ashe 1976—Connors 1977—Borg/Vilas 1978—Borg 1979—Borg 1980—Borg(4) 1981—McEnroe 1982—Connors(3) 1983—McEnroe/Wilander 1984—McEnroe(3) 1985—Lendl 1986—Lendl 1987—Lendl 1988—Wilander 1989—Becker/Lendl 1990—Edberg/Lendl(5) 1991—Edberg(2) 1992—Courier 1993—Sampras 1994—Sampras 1995—Sampras 1996—Sampras 1997—Sampras 1998—Sampras(6) 1999—Agassi 2000—Kuerten 2001—Hewitt 2002—Hewitt(2) 2003—Roddick 2004—Federer 2005—Federer 2006—Federer 2007—Federer 2008—Nadal 2009—Federer(5) 2010—Nadal(2) 2011—Djokovic 2012—Djokovic(2) I post this separately here for convenience. I post it also primarily for discussion, illumination, and enlightenment--not because it is definitive or proclamatory.
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The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 03-30-2013 at 11:02 AM. |
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10-30-2009, 09:28 AM
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#2 |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 216
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Some thoughts
1983 I might give to Wilander. He did have a 3-0 record against McEnroe that year, more tournament wins, fewer losses, performed better at 3 of the 4 major touraments, a better Davis Cup record. Are you including the Masters played in January 84 as part of your argument? I tend to include it in 1984 since that's when it's played even though the Masters is supposed to be the season ending event. Also I would discount Connors from the 1977 argument. However, I agree with you splitting Connors/Borg in 1978. Most people just tend to see Borg 2 majors to Connors 1 but I would say they performed pretty evenly throughout the year. |
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10-30-2009, 11:26 AM
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#3 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,639
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1964?
Hello,
I have to say I really like the list. You can tell by the co-number 1 years that you have spent a lot of time and thought in it. Comparing your list to Wikipedia's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_n...layer_rankings In 1964 it has them as co-number 1's. I'd like to see a list of both of their tournament wins so I could make up my mind. On the face of it though Laver seems to nod. (Dominant head to head plus 2 out of 3 of the majors). I wonder why the ranking voters at the time had Rosewall out on front or at least equal to Laver? Last edited by timnz : 10-30-2009 at 11:29 AM. |
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10-30-2009, 12:03 PM
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#4 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,734
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In 1964, the pros had an internal point system on a 18 or 20 tournament basis, with no difference between the status of the events. Many matches and some tournaments, especially on the South African tour late in the year, were not counted. Rosewall, who led the US tour until July 1964, finished on top in a close race under this system. But Laver had a 15-4 head to head, won US pro and Wembley, the two pro biggies, and won 11 events to Rosewalls 10, and if one looks closely, it seems, that Laver surpassed Rosewall with his Wembley win in September and closed out the year with his domination of the South African tour.
Overall a good list, Hoodjem, closely following the Wikipedia list, made by Carlo and others. Some years are always debatable: For instance, i would give Connors 1976 and Borg alone 1978, Newcombe 1971 or Smith alone 1972. Last edited by urban : 10-30-2009 at 12:20 PM. |
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10-30-2009, 02:16 PM
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#5 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,145
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Quote:
On the year 1964, while I do think Laver was number one for the year based on record, Rosewall was considered (perhaps incorrectly) number one. However since "officially" Rosewall was number one I do think it is reasonable for Muscles to be considered co-number one for that year. The records, despite Laver's great head to head advantage were very comparable which means that Rosewall must have done much better than Laver against the other players. And yes I think Borg was clearly the best in 1978. In fact it's quite possible 1978 was Borg's best year. |
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10-30-2009, 02:51 PM
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#6 |
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Legend
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 5,270
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mostly agreed, except
- Rosewall in 1960 (Gonzales didn't play enough) - Rosewall in 1964, or at least a tie - imo, Ashe a clear best in 1975 - Borg a clear #1 in 1978 - Agassi a tie with Sampras in 1995 - Sampras equal or greater than Agassi in 1999 |
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10-30-2009, 03:47 PM
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#7 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,145
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Quote:
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10-31-2009, 01:11 AM
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#8 | |
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Semi-Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 529
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Quote:
In 1977, Vilas is the N°1. No doubt about that : he won 2 GS (+ 1 Final), 16 tournaments, 46 matches consecutively. ATP's computer was absurd at this time !! |
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10-31-2009, 05:36 AM
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#9 |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,960
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1977 is a very tough year to call, one of the toughest. Lots of debate on here about it. I originally had Vilas as no. 1, but have been persuaded that Borg deserves also an equal rating (Borg 3-0 against Vilas that year). Connors did win the WCT Finals and the Masters, but why the heck did the ATP computer rank Connors as no. 1?
Question: in what part of the year did Gonzales retire in 1960? I remain convinced that in 1964 Laver was marginally better than Kenny: all the stats point in this direction. The case for Ashe higher than Connors in 1975 does seem strong. I bow to consensus. Edit made on 1978: Borg alone. Agassi looks like a very close no. 2 in 1995, but not quite. In 1999 Sampras looks like a very close no. 2, but not quite.
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The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 07-07-2010 at 04:50 AM. |
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10-31-2009, 06:02 AM
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#10 |
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 230
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i think the list is solid, but on some of the shared years i think there are definite winners.
In 1952 I would eliminate segura because gonzales won wembley and had 5-2 edge on segura leaving a shared ranking for sedgman and gonzales in 1958 i would choose sedgman because of 2 major wins wembley (the most important0 and aussie pro to gonzales one win at forest hills, and 4-2 head to head advntage for sedgman including both 5 set matches they played. in 1959 i would choose be cause his overall win-loss percentage is better than hoad who had lot poor results in europe. gonzales won the us tour over haod. both players are otherwise egual with 5 event wins and one major each. in 1972 i domn't see newcombe as a contender , the race is between nastase (winner of 12 events from over 30 starts and the biggest event forest hills) against smith (9 wins from 21 starts, wimbledon and the davis cup) with vote going smith because of his 4-1 edge over nastase. in 1975 everybody but the atp choose ashe. ashe won 9 events including wimbledon and wct finals and won his only match against connors, who was ru at wimbledon and forset hills and won 9 minor events. in 1976 connors deserves because he won 12 events to borg's 6 and had a 3-0 head to head over borg. in 1977 i agree its betwee borg and vilas. I would choose vilas because he won 2majors and was runner up in the aussie to borg's one major. outside the majors vilas won 16 events to borg's 10. borg's 3-0 head to head is his only claim and is not sufficient on its own. in 1978 i would choose borg with 2 majors to connor's 1 and 3-2 head to head advantage. in 1989 i would choose becker with 2 majors to one for lendl, and becker's big davis cup win and his 2-0 head to head edge on lendl. lendl 's only claim are 10 event wins to becker's 6 jeffrey |
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10-31-2009, 06:05 AM
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#11 | |
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Semi-Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 529
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Quote:
Yes, Borg 3-0 agains Vilas, but Vilas's results are very very very better than Borg's, so Vilas is the n°1 (Federer has been a long time n°1 even if he lost against Nadal, because his results were better). With the ATP computer of today, Vilas would be n°1 during several monthes. It's absurd that Connors was n°1 ATP this year. |
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10-31-2009, 07:11 AM
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#12 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,960
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Quote:
(I do want to try to parse it down to one name per year whenever logically possible.)
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The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 10-31-2009 at 07:30 AM. |
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10-31-2009, 10:27 AM
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#13 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 5,270
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Quote:
1964/1965 - it's a kind of reversal of things. Rosewall wins twice the number of titles than Laver in 64, but the major count is 2-1 Laver. Next year Laver wins more titles, but the major count is 2-1 Rosewall. In my opinion, Rosewall should get credit for one of these years or as co-#1 for both. Personally I think that Rosewall was better in 1964, but blew it at Wembley and the US Pro. EDIT: Got my facts wrong here - elaboration later. Ashe/Connors. It's just hard to ignore Ashe winning Wimbledon and Dallas, both of which are top-5 events, along with the masters. Connors won no top-five events, although he had more consistent results. Ashe had a poor second half. I think Connors was the better player, but had a worse year. 1995 - Agassi had a consistent lead on Pete in points that year, one he surrendered by not playing the indoor season. That gets him at least a co-#1 in my books. In 1999, Pete seemed better in every respect, but gave Agassi a shot to win the US Open due to injury. Otherwise Pete still dominated Wimbledon and then took the Masters. Last edited by CyBorg : 11-02-2009 at 10:13 AM. |
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10-31-2009, 12:59 PM
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#14 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,639
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[quote=CyBorg;4069588]
1964/1965 - it's a kind of reversal of things. Rosewall wins twice the number of titles than Laver in 64, but the major count is 2-1 Laver. Next year Laver wins more titles, but the major count is 2-1 Rosewall. In my opinion, Rosewall should get credit for one of these years or as co-#1 for both. Personally I think that Rosewall was better in 1964, but blew it at Wembley and the US Pro. QUOTE] In 1964 I thought Laver won 11 tournaments and Rosewall 10. (He also had a 15-4 head to head against Rosewall and won 2 out of the 3 majors). What tournaments do you have Rosewall winning that year when you say he has twice as many tournaments? (Be great to know  ) |
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10-31-2009, 01:11 PM
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#15 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 5,270
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Quote:
In which case, I stand corrected. Edit: according to wiki, Laver won 17 in 1965 and Rosewall 6. I'm being sloppy, I know, but I don't have my McCauley book on me at the moment. All things considered, Rosewall is still in play as at least a co-#1 in these two years. Last edited by CyBorg : 10-31-2009 at 01:14 PM. |
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10-31-2009, 01:15 PM
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#16 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,639
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1964 again
Quote:
Last edited by timnz : 10-31-2009 at 01:33 PM. |
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10-31-2009, 01:46 PM
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#17 |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,960
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I've wondered that myself. The statistics seem to suggest Laver by a hair, or co-equal number 1.
"Laver won 11 tournaments and Rosewall 10; Laver beat Rosewall 15-4 in head-to-head matches." "A point system for 19 pro tournaments (excluding at least 10 other tournaments) also resulted in Rosewall being No. 1 to Laver's No. 2 but that system granted each tournament the same points and then was unfair to the big events where Laver was superior to Rosewall : Laver beat Rosewall & Gonzales in U.S. Pro; Laver again beat Rosewall in Wembley Pro; Rosewall beat Laver in French Pro." Maybe it is this "unfair" point system.?
__________________
The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. |
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10-31-2009, 01:51 PM
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#18 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,960
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Quote:
When are the 1960 World Series Round Robin matches?
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The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 10-31-2009 at 02:06 PM. |
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11-01-2009, 12:58 AM
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#19 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,639
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11-10
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11-01-2009, 03:35 AM
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#20 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,145
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Quote:
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