pt57a pt57e tgk238.1 compared?

[PED]

If the 238.1 was more like the Mid in terms of solid feeling, I think I would like that. As I mentioned above, I thought my issue with the MP was the tight pattern but I was getting plenty of action on the ball with the Mid.

I was surprised that the head size was not an issue....it's bothered me in the past and I'll know more after hitting with it for a week or so.

[kumat63]

Originally Posted by ae1222

I am no expert but here are my observations, remember, these could be totally incorrect. I think they all come out of slightly different molds. The vast majority of the frame all looks the same, overall head size and beam width are about the same (for some reason the E feels just a tad wider, but maybe I am just seeing things). The only visible difference I can see between all three is what most on this board refer to as "the dimples" of the frame, the indentation at the bottom portion of the hoop where it meets the "Y" of the throat, at approximately 5 and 7 o'clock. The indentations there are slightly different on all 3 frames, the E frame it is a bit longer and tapers to a very long, sharp point. On the TGK it is shorter and what I would term as stubby, with a rounded end point. The A frame seems to be somewhere in between these two. I hope that helps, but that is the only thing I can tell, but what do I know.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was curious about. I've seen some photos of the three but never all lined up. From pics I've seen it looks like the "dimple" area is slightly different on all three which does suggest three (slightly) different molds. And is the area at the end of the CAP, near the handle, a bit different on some of them too?

I appreciate the info...

[ae1222]

Yeah I would say the TGK is more similar in feeling to the stock mid than to the MP. The MP just felt hollow and flimsy to me, I really like the TGK because it is so solid. I feel like I get just a little more pop with the TGK as well compared to the mid, plus the larger head size is nice. I feel like I get plenty of action with it even though it is an 18X20. But I have noticed lately that I am breaking string somewhat faster than I usually would with an 18X20 (used to use the Kblade tour for awhile) but it is worth it.

[ae1222]

Originally Posted by kumat63

Thanks! That's exactly what I was curious about. I've seen some photos of the three but never all lined up. From pics I've seen it looks like the "dimple" area is slightly different on all three which does suggest three (slightly) different molds. And is the area at the end of the CAP, near the handle, a bit different on some of them too?

I appreciate the info...

I have always had issues trying to post pics on this site (apparently I am not that smart) but if you want pics of all of mine lined up just shoot me an email at bwentz1222@yahoo.com and I can take any that you want.

[kumat63]

Originally Posted by dr325i

First, I apologize if I sounded rude...I looked back at my replies to your posts and they are...rough

Now, as I pointed out, I talked to Roman about these sticks (see my signature), I talked to the people that work for him, I talked to MANY other tuners and customizers and last 5 of the TGK sticks (Mid, Pro and MP) I got from two different Pros, one ranked in the 300s, one in the 450s, and ALL of them confirmed the sticks are Made in China, same mold as the retail stick, different material composition, therefore, as we both agree:
- lighter
- different flex
- different balance

My main sticks that I use are matched and belonged to Volandri.

These sticks, after being produced and painted in China are shipped to Head Austria or to the Customizers for the finishing touches.

The only Head rackets actually made in Kennelbach factory are PT57x, PT10 and PT161 , and some unique sticks that apparently have no codes (like Murray's for example)...

Nevertheless, I trully don't care if my stick is made in China, Austria or Russia as long as it feels good and is easily customizable.

i never posted any RDC numbers in the thread I started as I never measured any of that as I really don't care what the machine would say about the flex about a single point. On the other hand, I find a HUGE difference between the Retail stick and the TGK:
- stiffness as I explained
- feel (MUCH more solid)
- totally different sound
- totally different balance (less HL allowing you to add silicone in the handle that most Pros do)
- weight as we both mentionsd...

Apology accepted, thanks! Sorry too that my tone was less than friendly at a number of points

I only had Roman's say so back in Dec. '07 when I bought the sticks. Clearly you've talked to more people and credible folks than I have about these frames. Perhaps Roman was simply misinformed? I do think he's an honest and knowledgeable person, but everyone makes mistakes and I suppose no one asks too many questions when you get a chance to acquire pro-room frames. I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says...

So are the PT57a and PT57e made in Austria or China? I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just curious. I agree with you that it really isn't important. I've enjoyed playing with the 3 TGK238.1s I have and wherever they were made does not affect how they play or feel at all.

That said, I have hit extensively with retail MG Prestige MPs and I do not perceive them to be more or less stiff than the TGK238.1 The Babolat RDC machine a buddy of mine has says the TGKs are a little less stiff (63-65 RDC vs. 60-61 for the TGK). I mention the machine only because it give some objective measure to subjective impressions. Maybe my arm and hands just aren't finely calibrated enough to tell subtle differences.

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?

[kumat63]

Originally Posted by dr325i

First, I apologize if I sounded rude...I looked back at my replies to your posts and they are...rough

Now, as I pointed out, I talked to Roman about these sticks (see my signature), I talked to the people that work for him, I talked to MANY other tuners and customizers and last 5 of the TGK sticks (Mid, Pro and MP) I got from two different Pros, one ranked in the 300s, one in the 450s, and ALL of them confirmed the sticks are Made in China, same mold as the retail stick, different material composition, therefore, as we both agree:
- lighter
- different flex
- different balance

My main sticks that I use are matched and belonged to Volandri.

These sticks, after being produced and painted in China are shipped to Head Austria or to the Customizers for the finishing touches.

The only Head rackets actually made in Kennelbach factory are PT57x, PT10 and PT161 , and some unique sticks that apparently have no codes (like Murray's for example)...

Nevertheless, I trully don't care if my stick is made in China, Austria or Russia as long as it feels good and is easily customizable.

i never posted any RDC numbers in the thread I started as I never measured any of that as I really don't care what the machine would say about the flex about a single point. On the other hand, I find a HUGE difference between the Retail stick and the TGK:
- stiffness as I explained
- feel (MUCH more solid)
- totally different sound
- totally different balance (less HL allowing you to add silicone in the handle that most Pros do)
- weight as we both mentionsd...

Apology accepted, thanks! Sorry too that my tone was less than friendly at a number of points

I only had Roman's say so back in Dec. '07 when I bought the sticks. Clearly you've talked to more people and credible folks than I have about these frames. Perhaps Roman was simply misinformed? I do think he's an honest and knowledgeable person, but everyone makes mistakes and I suppose no one asks too many questions when you get a chance to acquire pro-room frames. I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says...

So are the PT57a and PT57e made in Austria or China? I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just curious. I agree with you that it really isn't important. I've enjoyed playing with the 3 TGK238.1s I have and wherever they were made does not affect how they play or feel at all.

That said, I have hit extensively with retail MG Prestige MPs and I do not perceive them to be more or less stiff than the TGK238.1 The Babolat RDC machine a buddy of mine has says the TGKs are a little less stiff (63-65 RDC vs. 60-61 for the TGK). I mention the machine only because it give some objective measure to subjective impressions. Maybe my arm and hands just aren't finely calibrated enough to tell subtle differences.

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". But it's a subtle difference and in terms of playability, I really couldn't see a difference in performance. My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?

[ae1222]

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?[/quote]

I think (and not sure on this one) is that the layup material and composition of the TGK is different than the standard frame. The first thing I noticed when I hit the first few balls with it was the flexibility (I thought it was very different) and the dampened feel of the frame. I got to think that has to do with the composition materials, but I have no clue what they are. I think that is what you are feeling when you say the frame isn't "pingy" because the frame is flexing so much more you will get a much deeper sound out of the frame.

No clue on how they make the frame that much lighter, my guess is (again, just speculating) is that the frame doesn't have much filler in it (many frames have some type of foam) because the frame composition doesn't require it because it is denser (just a wild guess, only way I will know is to smash one and find out but that would be a waste of a good frame and way too expensive just to satisfy my curiosity). I do love how the pro stock frames come that light so you can really mess around with the weight and balance, I have mine slightly heavier than yours, I have mine at 330g unstrung (352 strung with overgrip) and approximately 8 pts headlight. Swingweight measured on the Babolat RDC machine (there is your reference point!) was 302 unstrung and 335 strung.

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by kumat63

So are the PT57a and PT57e made in Austria or China? I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just curious. I agree with you that it really isn't important. I've enjoyed playing with the 3 TGK238.1s I have and wherever they were made does not affect how they play or feel at all.

That said, I have hit extensively with retail MG Prestige MPs and I do not perceive them to be more or less stiff than the TGK238.1 The Babolat RDC machine a buddy of mine has says the TGKs are a little less stiff (63-65 RDC vs. 60-61 for the TGK). I mention the machine only because it give some objective measure to subjective impressions. Maybe my arm and hands just aren't finely calibrated enough to tell subtle differences.

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". But it's a subtle difference and in terms of playability, I really couldn't see a difference in performance. My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?

THe PT57A & E, the PT10 and the PT161 are all made in Austria, along with the "special" Head frames/molds (Murray, Novak...). The PT57A uses the old PT630 mold, the PT57E apparently the iPrestige MP mold, the PT10 is the PC600... Beside the molds, they don't have much else incomon with those sticks.

I don't know anything about the RA stiffness rating of the frames, but I definitely know that the TGKs feel stiffer (or more solid) than the retail MGP MP.

My favorite feature of the TGK sticks is that I can customize them the way I like it without going excessive weight; I could not do that with the retail frames.

So, for me, they are great - stiff feeling, solid, ideal balance/weight/SW, great sound...

I am not sure how they make them lighter. THey do feel solid, so it is probably not the lack of the filler as compared to the Retail. That plus a different balance in the "stock" form from the retail + a different sound tells me they are using a different material composition. I am just guessing here...

[kumat63]

ae1222 and dr325... thanks for the replies.

At the end of the day, we seem to have the same impressions of the racquets... appreciate your input!

[bad_call]

PED - interested in your comments regarding the Mid.

[PED]

Originally Posted by bad_call

PED - interested in your comments regarding the Mid.

Hit again today with it and NASTY is the word I'll use...not the racquet but the ball it produces. Playing against a heavy hitter and the extra mass of the mid (350g) just absorbs the pace and spits it out. I'm usually pretty good at hitting the middle of the bed on the Pro (always breaks right there) and that helps in hitting the sweet spot on the Mid as it's a somewhat all or nothing kind of deal.

I don't know if it's the smaller head versus the Pro combined with the thinner 19mm beam but racquet head speed is really effortless. I've had no issues with depth or spin and the shot that has really shined with the extra control is to take a FH from the dead center of the baseline and drive it just inside the service line in the deuce court. I could do that with the Pro but not as consistently. When I played today, I still had the FXP in there but will have PL2 at 51/49 in there next week. My stringer shook his head as the stick he had just strung up was my Pro at 57/55, but with full poly in the 89.3 inch head, I'd rather be safe than sorry. He's probably cursing me as we speak putting that poly on that small head

[bad_call]

PED - thanks for your post. happy with the Pro but may need to give the Mid a try at some point.

[PED]

Bad Call, one more update on the Mid. I tried it with full pl2 but the Mid played better with head FXP at 58/56. The multi gave it more pocketing as well and a bit more pop.

I like the Mid when playing against a big hitter because it absorbs pace so much but found it a bit frustrating on Monday when playing against somewhat of a pusher. I found I could more easier get spin from my Pro to get the angles I wanted....

Oh well, it was fun. As I've said before, I wish they'd make a 98 inch version of the Mid with the thin beam and the same heft as opposed to the MGMP they did come out with.

[bad_call]

Originally Posted by PED

Bad Call, one more update on the Mid. I tried it with full pl2 but the Mid played better with head FXP at 58/56. The multi gave it more pocketing as well and a bit more pop.

I like the Mid when playing against a big hitter because it absorbs pace so much but found it a bit frustrating on Monday when playing against somewhat of a pusher. I found I could more easier get spin from my Pro to get the angles I wanted....

Oh well, it was fun. As I've said before, I wish they'd make a 98 inch version of the Mid with the thin beam and the same heft as opposed to the MGMP they did come out with.

thanks. confirmed my thoughts on the Mid.

[Pro_Tour_630]

Originally Posted by kumat63

. I would be curious since you've been able to look at the PT57a, PT57e, and TGK238.1 side by side if they are three different molds, or if the TGK238.1 looks to be the same mold as the PT57a or PT57e... Thanks for the info!

notice how your concern was not answered by our in house Dr

[dr325i]

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630

notice how your concern was not answered by our in house Dr

Instead of crying and being hurt for someone pointing out details you did not know, you should take it as a learning lesson...

[Pro_Tour_630]

notice you still did not answer the question.............. intern

[dgoran]

So all animosity aside can anyone who knows anyone in the know from Head Austria or some factory person familiar with the process confirm these statements/suspicions:

"pt57e" - lite pro stock version of consumer iprestige
"pt57a - lite pro stock version of consumer pro tour 630"
"tkg series - lite pro stock model/version of consumer MG line"

How do you make racket lighter and in the same time feel the same?
My understanding is that most pros grow up using one RETAIL frame or another with various customizations throughout the years so head makes pt and tkg for them to ease matching to their exact specs. For example Djokovic used Prince than LM radical than probably realized he could use more flex so head custom made a radical for him with LM Rad mold and PT 630 flex feel.