racquetresearch.com thoughts (esp on shoulders!)

[Sam F]

I've spent a lot of time there, as well as reading everything I can find in these forums. It seems to me racquetresearch.com does a good job plugging numbers into formulas, but they:

1- don't take flexibility or shock dampening technologies into effect
2- treat equally the different categories they calculate (like shoulder crunch, shoulder pull, torque, and impact force) when any one of these categories could be much more important in preventing injury than the others
3- don't do real world tests to make sure their theoretical results translate into real world results

Is this a fair assessment? If so, any thoughts on what is most important for avoiding shoulder injuries? I'm a former college player who had to quit, had shoulder surgery in Jan '08, and is now experiencing rotator cuff problems in my continuing attempted comeback. So, shoulder safety is my primary concern.

Thanks ahead of time for any help!

[mawashi]

Ran through their site a couple of times and for the most part I agree with their findings although, I use their data to confirm whatever I get from actual games.

I don't get caught up too much with all the details as I strongly believe that you r your own best source of information.

mawashi

[larry10s]

Originally Posted by Sam F

I've spent a lot of time there, as well as reading everything I can find in these forums. It seems to me racquetresearch.com does a good job plugging numbers into formulas, but they:

1- don't take flexibility or shock dampening technologies into effect
2- treat equally the different categories they calculate (like shoulder crunch, shoulder pull, torque, and impact force) when any one of these categories could be much more important in preventing injury than the others
3- don't do real world tests to make sure their theoretical results translate into real world results

Is this a fair assessment? If so, any thoughts on what is most important for avoiding shoulder injuries? I'm a former college player who had to quit, had shoulder surgery in Jan '08, and is now experiencing rotator cuff problems in my continuing attempted comeback. So, shoulder safety is my primary concern.

Thanks ahead of time for any help!

i think the general concensus , conventional wisdom is heavy weight, headlight , flexible frame and gut or soft strings at lower tension. if you had shoulder problems before from tennis and now you are getting them again i would see a sports physical therapist to get a good strengthening flexibility program and see a pro regarding your technique.talkbut first talk to an orthopedist since what you should or should notbe doing based on your injury and current status of your shoulder only an orthopod can tell you

[Sam F]

Thanks, y'all, for the feedback. I definitely understand the importance of seeing a good doctor, doing the right exercises, stroke analysis, etc. Believe me, I've been all over that.

One thing I have learned though is that just because something feels good to you and isn't causing a problem currently doesn't mean that the practice or equipment isn't causing problems for the long run. So, I'm just trying to cover all my bases the best I can and find equipment that gives me the best chance of returning to the game.

Any thoughts on which of the factors are most important for shoulders?

[corners]

Originally Posted by Sam F

I've spent a lot of time there, as well as reading everything I can find in these forums. It seems to me racquetresearch.com does a good job plugging numbers into formulas, but they:

1- don't take flexibility or shock dampening technologies into effect
2- treat equally the different categories they calculate (like shoulder crunch, shoulder pull, torque, and impact force) when any one of these categories could be much more important in preventing injury than the others
3- don't do real world tests to make sure their theoretical results translate into real world results

Is this a fair assessment? If so, any thoughts on what is most important for avoiding shoulder injuries? I'm a former college player who had to quit, had shoulder surgery in Jan '08, and is now experiencing rotator cuff problems in my continuing attempted comeback. So, shoulder safety is my primary concern.

Thanks ahead of time for any help!

Your comments on the site and my reflections:

1. I don't think he takes flexibility into account in his formulas. Do a search for "spin index" - you should find a thread by poster Travlerajm wherein he incorporates frame flexibility into a spin/arm health formula derived in similar fashion to those on racquetresearch.

As far as shock dampening technologies, there's a good article on www.racquettech.com by Cross (I believe) where he explains that shock dampening technologies only really dampen vibration, not shock. This has to do with the weight of the hand holding the racquet capable of absorbing far more shock. I don't really understand the PK Kinetic system, but this might be an exception.

2. I don't know anything to shed light on this question.

3. Yeah, the info is theoretical, so real-world testing/demoing is a good idea.

One further thing to consider is that although heavy, headlight racquets are pretty much universally hailed by experts as being arm friendly, there is a limit to this being beneficial when it comes to the shoulder. I recall reading an article by former pro coach Sergio Cruz where he recommended putting lead in the head to improve the spin and speed on serve, citing Sampras' super heavy and high swingweight racquet as an example. He added, however, that too much swingweight could slow down your swing, erasing any gains of having more power, and cautioned that unless you built up slowly and with prudence you could shred your rotator cuff, ending your career.

[Sam F]

Thank you, corners, for the info. I had not found that yet. I'd love to read that article at www.racquettech.com, but they require a paid subscription. I've never heard of them and before I give them my money, can someone please tell me if they're legit?

I did find Travlerajm's formula and the discussion that followed. Very interesting. But I, like many who posted, would like a better explanation for his formula. I did run the numbers of some of my favorite demos so far and came up with:

Fischer m Pro #1 98 = 93.18
Fischer m Pro #1 105 = 79.78
Prince EXO Rebel = 90.35
Pro Kennex 5g = 87.74

As anything 85-90 is considered excellent and safe for arms, these are all good scores. However, he although he starts off talking about 'arm-safety', he seems to later clarify that it's 'elbow-safe' figures that the formula generates. Any thoughts on whether the same basic rules apply?

[corners]

Originally Posted by Sam F

Thank you, corners, for the info. I had not found that yet. I'd love to read that article at www.racquettech.com, but they require a paid subscription. I've never heard of them and before I give them my money, can someone please tell me if they're legit?

I did find Travlerajm's formula and the discussion that followed. Very interesting. But I, like many who posted, would like a better explanation for his formula. I did run the numbers of some of my favorite demos so far and came up with:

Fischer m Pro #1 98 = 93.18
Fischer m Pro #1 105 = 79.78
Prince EXO Rebel = 90.35
Pro Kennex 5g = 87.74

As anything 85-90 is considered excellent and safe for arms, these are all good scores. However, he although he starts off talking about 'arm-safety', he seems to later clarify that it's 'elbow-safe' figures that the formula generates. Any thoughts on whether the same basic rules apply?

Hey Sam,

Racquettech is legit. This is the site of the US Racquet Stringers Association. The article I mentioned is written by one of the authors of 'Technical Tennis', one of the two or three definitive books on the subject of racquet technology and physics. Cross is a colleague of Lindsey Crawford, another scientist studying tennis physics (and also Tennis Warehouse's very own Professor). They offer a one-month web-only membership for $10 - so you can devour all the articles on their site. I recommend it - lots of good info.

Regarding Travlerajm's spin/arm-health index, although he didn't provide info on how exactly he came up with it, it's basically a polarization index with racquet flex factored in. A polarization index is pretty much recoil weight divided by weight. High recoil weight is good for the arm. As far as being good for elbow vs. good for the shoulder, I don't really know. But I assume, as with the elbow, that a flexible racquet is better than a stiff one. So Travlerajm's formula should be useful for that as well, but I don't know how specific it is.

I've had shoulder issues this year and did find that overly hefty racquets seemed to put extra stress on the joint. I'm talking 12.5-13 ounce racquets vs. 12 ounce ones. I found 12 ounces to be OK for my shoulder.

[haerdalis]

I dont think heavy racquets are better for shoulder safety. I feel that heavier headlight and flexy racquets are good for elbow and wrist provided you dont have a jerky motion. Lighter and stiffer are easier on my shoulder. I also feel gut strings help with elbow issues but not shoulder issues.
My advice would be to find a racquet that is heavy enough for elbow safety and groundstroke control and still light enough for shoulder safety.

[Tofuspeedstar]

Yeap I used it after having reconstructive shoulder surgery. I'm pretty happy with my Pure Drive.