will lifting weights slow me down?

[spacediver]

www.bodyrecomposition.com is one of the best resources I have found when it comes to the science of nutrition, training, fat loss, and muscle gain

[r2473]

Though not perfectly on topic, I think this is a nice addition to the thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nppzGV1U8y8

[The Watchman]

To the OP, you've seen that everyone's got a different opinion.

The one thing I'd like to contribute is that there are a number of different types of strength - eg. maximal strength, explosive strength, muscular endurance, speed strength etc.

A lot of weight trainees aim almost solely for 'maximal strength' - how much can you bench/squat/deadlift etc.

Maximal strength is useful as a base for other strength qualities - it's easier to clean 60kg (135 pounds) if you can deadlift 200kg (440 pounds) rather than 100kg (220 pounds).

However, excessive pursuit of maximal strength can, at its extreme, reduce things like your explosive strength and speed strength.

And guess which types of strength are important for tennis (hint: there are no times in tennis where the player is required to manhandle large weights (eg a 300 pound opponent))?

If I were you:

1. Your current training program is actually quite reasonable. Make sure you squat at least to parallel (top of thighs at or below parallel) - squatting to an 11 inch high cardboard box works for most folks.

2. You might want to drop the reps on the power clean from 5 to at most 3, as previously suggested. Increase sets to get your volume (eg 8 x 3 instead of 5 x 5). You are wise to include them in your program.

3. You might want to alternate bench presses with overhead presses. Overhead presses (with full range of motion) train your rotator cuff muscles, which are crucial to safely decelerate your arm on throwing motions such as serves and forehands.

4. You might want to include more specific pulling motions, like rows and chin ups.

5. Once your big lifts are up and progress in weights is slow, start dropping the weight (eg 65% of your 1 rep max) and lift that weight faster. This trains explosive strength, and ensures you use your newfound strength explosively.

[Matt H.]

the basis for the high protein bulk is due to what Ano already said. Protein is the least likely to be stored as fat.

I need over 3200 cals to gain weight. My body type is not the best when it comes to carb tolerance. On average 200g is about my limit for a day in and day out basis. Obviously i drop it down a bit lower on non-training days and bump it up after a taxing workout of heavy squats or deadlifts.

The extra calories have to be made up elsewhere so I chose to eat meat.

[Slazenger07]

Originally Posted by CallOfBooty

i am lifting weights primarily to look better and get stronger. i want to be able to bench more and prove to people that i'm not weak. im 16 years old and i have had experience before with weightlifting but it slowed me down and it took me about a year to get my speed back. i am starting to lift again with this program http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Starr_5x5 . basically you just do 5x5 of compound lifts, and very few if any isolation lifts on the side.

so i was wondering if i did this program during the winter, while i am still playing tennis about 5-8 hours a week, would i be slowed down a lot on the court? tennis is more important to me than getting stronger and looking better, but i have the extra time to lift so i am wondering if it would be detrimental to my tennis or not.

edit: this is the program i am doing
Monday:
Squat, 5 X 5 (35%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100% of attempted five rep max)
Bench press, 5 X 5 (35%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% of attempted five rep max)
Power clean, 5 X 5 (35%, 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% of attempted five rep max)

Wednesday:
Bench press, 5 X 5 (35%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100% of attempted five rep max)
Power clean, 5 X 5 (35%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% of attempted five rep max)
Squat, 5 X 5 (35%, 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% of attempted five rep max)

Friday:
Power clean, 5 X 5 (35%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100% of attempted five rep max)
Squat, 5 X 5 (35%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% of attempted five rep max)
Bench press, 5 X 5 (35%, 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% of attempted five rep max)

only big compound lifts

You wont build too much muscle with this routine, too few reps you need to be shooting for the 6-12 rep range. 5 reps will give you mostly strength, because your muscles grow from 'time under tension' so basically youve got to keep your muscles under tension for a certain amount of time to stimulate muscle growth 6-12 reps per set will keep you under tension for enough time to stimulate growth.

you'll gain strength with this routine for sure but not much else.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by Slazenger07

You wont build too much muscle with this routine, too few reps you need to be shooting for the 6-12 rep range. 5 reps will give you mostly strength, because your muscles grow from 'time under tension' so basically youve got to keep your muscles under tension for a certain amount of time to stimulate muscle growth 6-12 reps per set will keep you under tension for enough time to stimulate growth.

you'll gain strength with this routine for sure but not much else.

I never realized the lines were so razor thin!!! 5 reps will give you strength only, but if you up it to 6 everything changes.

Dare I ask what happens to those bold enough to go over the 12 rep range?

[r2473]

Originally Posted by spacediver

www.bodyrecomposition.com is one of the best resources I have found when it comes to the science of nutrition, training, fat loss, and muscle gain

That is a great site. Thanks.

[maverick66]

Originally Posted by r2473

I never realized the lines were so razor thin!!! 5 reps will give you strength only, but if you up it to 6 everything changes.

What if he does 5 and a partial rep? Does he get the best of both worlds?


Even if his goal is to get bigger its fine to do starting strength. It will give him a great strength base so if he switches to a more bodybuilder like program he will be at a good place to start.

[CallOfBooty]

Originally Posted by Slazenger07

You wont build too much muscle with this routine, too few reps you need to be shooting for the 6-12 rep range. 5 reps will give you mostly strength, because your muscles grow from 'time under tension' so basically youve got to keep your muscles under tension for a certain amount of time to stimulate muscle growth 6-12 reps per set will keep you under tension for enough time to stimulate growth.

you'll gain strength with this routine for sure but not much else.

it's okay because i'm aware that lifting in the five rep range will not cause as much hypertrophy as the 8-10 rep range, but i don't want to bulk up. i just want to get stronger and faster without being too sore to play tennis the next day

[fire_eaters]

Originally Posted by coyfish

Everyone is different. But you are right . . . protein is the "least" likely to be turned to fat. At the same time It is yet to be proven how much protein is "necessary" for optimal maximum muscle gain. So my question is why people are taking 2g per lb of bodyweight when similar results are shown eating just 1-1.5.

To those of you eating upwards of 1.5 im shure your fart like crazy. I know I did. Also have your pee checked to find out all the protein your excreting through your urine. Your kidneys must filter all that . . . Why have a bodybuilder diet when your not taking something to that extreme . . .

When your bulking FOOD is your friend . . . not supplements. No need to supplement food when you are able to consume basically as much as you want.

Everyone loves to discredit the "myth" you can only digest X amount of protein per sitting. Then they point to ronnie coleman a huge bodybuilder on roids over 200 lbs and say . . . he eats a 100 in just is protein shake. News flash . . . hes feeding a bigger machine. The amount of nutrition you need isn't based on your overall weight . . . its based on your LEAN MASS.

hey coyfish your posts have really interested me on this thread and it appears we are kinda twins lol right now im 5'10 160-165 lbs and everytime i try and go on a workout routine i dont seem to gain much either way because i have such a fast metabolism. but i wanted to ask you, what is your exact routine? how many reps of the workout..etc..and does it help with your tennis game? im going to be playing for a D3 college in the spring and im currently at a 3.5 level but im improving fast. I also read somewhere that you said you have a serve around 100-110 mph!? That is what i am desperately trying to get to..right now i think i top out around 85 maybe 90. but since we have the same body type i would think i should be able to reach that big serve too.

[coyfish]

Originally Posted by fire_eaters

hey coyfish your posts have really interested me on this thread and it appears we are kinda twins lol right now im 5'10 160-165 lbs and everytime i try and go on a workout routine i dont seem to gain much either way because i have such a fast metabolism. but i wanted to ask you, what is your exact routine? how many reps of the workout..etc..and does it help with your tennis game? im going to be playing for a D3 college in the spring and im currently at a 3.5 level but im improving fast. I also read somewhere that you said you have a serve around 100-110 mph!? That is what i am desperately trying to get to..right now i think i top out around 85 maybe 90. but since we have the same body type i would think i should be able to reach that big serve too.

Well first off power in tennis comes from flexibility, legs, core, and technique. Not muscles like arms and chest. Look at Fed. Hes a twig (except for his legs) but he cranks those shots. Pure tennis training is basically for stamina and support to avoid injury. That being said I don't think lifting like a bodybuilder will hurt your tennis game at all unless your a very high (5.5+) player where any extra unecessary mass may hurt you. But even then look at Nadal. Hes not that thin (meaning BF%) and he scurries around like mad.

Yeah my flat serves are around 105 +/- 5 mph according to radar gun. Im a 4.5 florida ntrp.

People who are genetically very skinny with fast metabolisms that have a hard time gaining mass are called ectomorphs. I don't know your BF but I assume its low and your 160-165 so your definately not THAT skinny. Thin but you have some size.

Anyway the workouts the work best for most ectomorphs are . . . hard and fast (no pun intended). I workout for 45 minutes. Im a pretty advanced lifter in terms of knowlege and I change my routines / splits / exercises a lot but this is my current workout. Its my bread and butter cookie cutter basic routine.

Monday - Chest / abs

Bench Press - 4 sets including warmup set. Pyramid style 12-10-8-6 reps.
Dumbell Press - 3 sets 10-8-6
Cable flies - 3 sets (same stle)
Decline Bench - 3 sets
Dips - 3 sets. I do 20 - 20 - 15.

Ab exercises I always go heavy resistance. People don't understand that while abs repair fast . . . they are still muscles that respond to the same stimulation that other muslces do. So lifting heavy will build strength and cause them to pop out. Just pick 3 exersizes and use weights to add resistance.


Wed - shoulders / traps / upper back
Barbell Rows - 3 sets
Any grip you want pull ups X 3 sets
Seated rows - 3 sets
Military press - 3 sets
Arnold press - 3 sets
Lateral / front raises - 3 sets
Upright barbell rows - 3 sets
Upright cable rows - 3 sets
Shrugs - 3 sets

Friday - Bi's / Tri's / Abs

Barbell curls X 3 sets
Skullcrushers X 3 sets
Bi curls X 3 sets
Close grip bench press X 3 sets
Preacher Curls X 3 sets
Rope tri extension X 3
Then do abs

Sat - Lower Back / legs / Abs

Deadlifts - 3 sets
Another lower back exercise (blanking on name)
Squats - 3 sets
Lunges holding dumbells - 3 sets
Leg press - 3 sets
Quad extension
Hamstring curls
Calves
Wall sits




Anyway thats my workout right now. As you can see its very simple. No complex supersets, dropsets, etc. They are usually 45 minutes long with rests between sets. Everybody is different but when I was bulking and putting on mass. . . working out heavy and short worked best for me. I have never been one of those guys who sit in the gym working out chest for an hour and a half. I get in and out. Longer workouts generally benefit endomorphs (heavyset people). They put on mass easier but also fat. Longer workouts help burn more calories.


The key for us (ectomorphs) is in the nutrition department. Gains happen in the kitchen. If you wan't more muscle you have to eat. Don't be afraid about gaining fat. Especially with your metabolism. To gain weight I had to eat well over 5K calories a day. I confess I ate fast food everyday because I just couldn't eat that much healthy food. I could get 2K calories out of the way with a triple wendy's burger and fries. Thanks to my metab I gained very little fat. I have never not been able to see my 6 pack. I used the scale to monitor my status.

Anyway I know this was a long post but I hope it helped. Let me know if you have any questions.


Edit : Forgot your question about my tennis game. "Do I think lifting has helped?"

Well its hard to say since Ive only been playing tennis a couple years and I have been the same size for a while. Just knowing that im stronger and fitter than my opponents is a big confidence boost. I know I can hit as hard as just about anyone from the baseline. Also I do a lot of cardio so running is never a problem. I also feel good that my body is supported and I won't pull muscle tear something as easily. I think it definately has some benefits but as I mentioned tennis isn't about raw strength. The power comes from technique mostly.

[fire_eaters]

Originally Posted by coyfish

Well first off power in tennis comes from flexibility, legs, core, and technique. Not muscles like arms and chest. Look at Fed. Hes a twig (except for his legs) but he cranks those shots. Pure tennis training is basically for stamina and support to avoid injury. That being said I don't think lifting like a bodybuilder will hurt your tennis game at all unless your a very high (5.5+) player where any extra unecessary mass may hurt you. But even then look at Nadal. Hes not that thin (meaning BF%) and he scurries around like mad.

Yeah my flat serves are around 105 +/- 5 mph according to radar gun. Im a 4.5 florida ntrp.

People who are genetically very skinny with fast metabolisms that have a hard time gaining mass are called ectomorphs. I don't know your BF but I assume its low and your 160-165 so your definately not THAT skinny. Thin but you have some size.

Anyway the workouts the work best for most ectomorphs are . . . hard and fast (no pun intended). I workout for 45 minutes. Im a pretty advanced lifter in terms of knowlege and I change my routines / splits / exercises a lot but this is my current workout. Its my bread and butter cookie cutter basic routine.

Monday - Chest / abs

Bench Press - 4 sets including warmup set. Pyramid style 12-10-8-6 reps.
Dumbell Press - 3 sets 10-8-6
Cable flies - 3 sets (same stle)
Decline Bench - 3 sets
Dips - 3 sets. I do 20 - 20 - 15.

Ab exercises I always go heavy resistance. People don't understand that while abs repair fast . . . they are still muscles that respond to the same stimulation that other muslces do. So lifting heavy will build strength and cause them to pop out. Just pick 3 exersizes and use weights to add resistance.


Wed - shoulders / traps / upper back
Barbell Rows - 3 sets
Any grip you want pull ups X 3 sets
Seated rows - 3 sets
Military press - 3 sets
Arnold press - 3 sets
Lateral / front raises - 3 sets
Upright barbell rows - 3 sets
Upright cable rows - 3 sets
Shrugs - 3 sets

Friday - Bi's / Tri's / Abs

Barbell curls X 3 sets
Skullcrushers X 3 sets
Bi curls X 3 sets
Close grip bench press X 3 sets
Preacher Curls X 3 sets
Rope tri extension X 3
Then do abs

Sat - Lower Back / legs / Abs

Deadlifts - 3 sets
Another lower back exercise (blanking on name)
Squats - 3 sets
Lunges holding dumbells - 3 sets
Leg press - 3 sets
Quad extension
Hamstring curls
Calves
Wall sits




Anyway thats my workout right now. As you can see its very simple. No complex supersets, dropsets, etc. They are usually 45 minutes long with rests between sets. Everybody is different but when I was bulking and putting on mass. . . working out heavy and short worked best for me. I have never been one of those guys who sit in the gym working out chest for an hour and a half. I get in and out. Longer workouts generally benefit endomorphs (heavyset people). They put on mass easier but also fat. Longer workouts help burn more calories.


The key for us (ectomorphs) is in the nutrition department. Gains happen in the kitchen. If you wan't more muscle you have to eat. Don't be afraid about gaining fat. Especially with your metabolism. To gain weight I had to eat well over 5K calories a day. I confess I ate fast food everyday because I just couldn't eat that much healthy food. I could get 2K calories out of the way with a triple wendy's burger and fries. Thanks to my metab I gained very little fat. I have never not been able to see my 6 pack. I used the scale to monitor my status.

Anyway I know this was a long post but I hope it helped. Let me know if you have any questions.


Edit : Forgot your question about my tennis game. "Do I think lifting has helped?"

Well its hard to say since Ive only been playing tennis a couple years and I have been the same size for a while. Just knowing that im stronger and fitter than my opponents is a big confidence boost. I know I can hit as hard as just about anyone from the baseline. Also I do a lot of cardio so running is never a problem. I also feel good that my body is supported and I won't pull muscle tear something as easily. I think it definately has some benefits but as I mentioned tennis isn't about raw strength. The power comes from technique mostly.

wow thank you so much that really helped out alot. just one question, on your workout routine you said to do "x3 sets" for many of them, but how many reps? i saw on one you did 10 and worked your way down 9, then 8..also what type of weight are you doing? i know there's that old saying more reps less weight to get lean, and more weight less reps to build.

[coyfish]

Originally Posted by fire_eaters

wow thank you so much that really helped out alot. just one question, on your workout routine you said to do "x3 sets" for many of them, but how many reps? i saw on one you did 10 and worked your way down 9, then 8..also what type of weight are you doing? i know there's that old saying more reps less weight to get lean, and more weight less reps to build.

Those are all pyramid style. Meaning on 3 set exersizes I aim for 10-8-6. Bench press I like to do 4 sets so I get a better warmup.

The weights are relative but ill show you what im lifting on chest day.

Im 168 lbs right now and around 9% BF.


Warmup at 135 lbs (45 plate on each side). Usually do 10-12 until I feel loose.

2nd set 175 for 10

3rd set is 195 for 8

Final set is 215 for 4-6. Sometimes I do 225.


Dumbell press I do 3 sets. Usually do 65 lbs, then 75 lbs, then 85 lbs.


The less wieght more reps to get lean is sort of a myth in the way that most people think about it. Burning out high reps doesn't cause "tone." Tone is nothing more than low BF. That happens with diet and cardio not lifting. It does have benefits and helps you burn more calories because you are increasing your HR however. For muscle gain however I think heavy lifting is your best bet. Im in maintanance phase so I do a little of everything. I cycle 2 months of heavy lifting with 2 months of supersets, dropsets, and higher rep styles.

Actually next week im going to try HIT training because its something I have never done before. Not sure how I will respond to that. Doubt its possible for me to get any bigger / stronger for my size right now but im always looking for new workouts.

[cncretecwbo]

Originally Posted by fire_eaters

hey coyfish your posts have really interested me on this thread and it appears we are kinda twins lol right now im 5'10 160-165 lbs and everytime i try and go on a workout routine i dont seem to gain much either way because i have such a fast metabolism. but i wanted to ask you, what is your exact routine? how many reps of the workout..etc..and does it help with your tennis game? im going to be playing for a D3 college in the spring and im currently at a 3.5 level but im improving fast. I also read somewhere that you said you have a serve around 100-110 mph!? That is what i am desperately trying to get to..right now i think i top out around 85 maybe 90. but since we have the same body type i would think i should be able to reach that big serve too.

i dont think strength is as important in hitting big serves as much as good coordination of body parts. I know some tiny kids who can approach 100 on serves. Id say hit more serves to serve better.

[fire_eaters]

Originally Posted by cncretecwbo

i dont think strength is as important in hitting big serves as much as good coordination of body parts. I know some tiny kids who can approach 100 on serves. Id say hit more serves to serve better.

yeah, and i understand this is the wrong section to be talking about this but my coach tells me i dont have enough of a back scratch on my serve, and that my arms arent loose enough. the serve is definitely a work in progress..very frustrating that I cant just pick it up though.

[BlackGolden]

I am a big boy so for me doing weights sure didnt didnt help my speed. I think its best to do core and leg work with some lighter weights for tennis and maybe some work with rubber bands for the arms and upper body.

[lawlitssoo1n]

someone is using the 5x5 mad cow program. remeber to add cardio to your work out