Does the college you go to REALLY matter?

[veritech]

also, make sure you do some research on which school has a better program for your major of study. the school with the better program may offer you better connections, more internships, and just more opportunities in general.

despite what school you go to, study hard and network. and above all, have fun.

[ogruskie]

Hey guys, sorry to bring this thread back up.

I was doing a bit more research and I'm considering transferring to San Francisco State University. Tuition is cheaper, it's closer to home, and from what I've read they have a great reputation in the biology department. Some stats I got off wikipedia:

San Francisco State University ranks 1st nationwide in the number of biological sciences undergrads who go on to earn biology Ph.D.s according to the most recent National Science Foundation report

San Francisco State University is among the top 201 colleges and universities that offer "real world," job-focused services and skill development, according to Great Colleges for the Real World by (Michael P. Viollt, Octameron Associates, 2002)

The university is currently ranked as the 45th best master's-granting university in the Western United States by U.S. News & World Report.

Anyway, that's beside the point. I think I need to rephrase my original question. Does the undergraduate college you go to affect your chances of admission at a graduate school?

If I decide to go to medical school, would UC students have priority over me? Or is the undergrad college irrelevant? It's the entrance exam scores and GPA that med schools will look at?

If the original answers in this thread remain the same then disregard this post...

[travlerajm]

It matters. But so does your gpa.

If you have an opportunity to get into a better school, I say take it. But once you get there, you'll have to work even harder to make it pay off for your future.

I attended a top-tier school. I don't think it helped me get into grad schools because my undergrad gpa was crummy. But once I had my PhD (from a large research school), having a Stanford undergraduate degree on my resume has definitely given me more credibility. People seem to trust your competence more when you've gone through the filtering process of being admitted to an elite school.

[ogruskie]

So it would look better to have a high GPA in a decent school as opposed to a low GPA in a top tier school?

[max]

I tend to think this is true. I graduated from a very difficult school with top grades and it was a lot of work. . . and I was surprised to see graduates from less difficult schools who had good gpas get accepted to the kinds of schools I wanted to get into.

It didn't seem fair. But I have had the consolation of knowing my undergraduate education was better.

[albino smurf]

totally situational. find someone who is established in your field and ask them.

[movdqa]

I'd keep an eye on the California higher education funding issues for the next two years.

[sureshs]

Three things to watch out for:

1. Sour grapes: cannot get in, so claim reputation of college is of no use
2. Over-reaching: getting into a highly ranked place, and then being unable to cope with the brightest. This is the worst case, IMO.
3. Under-reaching: getting into a very easy place, under the assumption that you will breeze thru. Not a bad thing to do, but comes with some caveats like understand what you are missing, and that employers can also figure out why you went there.

[Kevin T]

I would say be careful about California schools right now and I teach at a state school. Due to budget cuts, many students need 5, even 6 years to earn a BS due to lack of classes/profs/etc. My wife's cousin is graduating from San Fran State this month and it took 5 1/2 years due to class availability issues. If Oregon, Oregon St, or other bordering states/unis have similar programs I would give them a look. A co-worker's son recently started at San Diego St but was also accepted at U of Oregon and the annual cost was quite similar, even with out of state tuition.

[Casey10s]

When I was a manager, the school you went to had a big determination on your starting salary. If you went to a well-known school of engineering, you could negotiate a higher starting salary over some of the lesser known schools. If you went to an elite engineering school, you were probably receiving offers from other companies for almost twice what our top salary for a college grad would be. Of course, these people didn't come to work for us. It was crazy the offers I heard these people were getting. They were making more than most of the experience engineers at our place. After about 5 years out of college, the school you went to didn't matter as much.

[Eph]

Originally Posted by ogruskie

Eh, another one of my college threads. I started my first week at a community college with hopes of getting out in 2 years. The plan is to major in Neurobiology, at either UC Davis or UC Berkeley. I was going through the list of classes that I'll have to take, and Berkeley requires a far greater amount of classes in order to transfer, which will take me at least 3 years to complete.

See, here's the issue. I can go to UC Davis in 2 years (provided I meet the requirements), or I can take an extra year to finish off some other classes and go to UC Berkeley. And this got me thinking, is it really worth waiting another year? What's the advantage of getting into the "better" university (Berk)? Will I get paid simply because I have "UC Berkeley" on my resume for work, or what?

I figure most of you here are either in college or long out of it, and would offer some insight. Thanks in advance.

Yes, it's worth it to go to the best college as soon as possible.

Why? If I had to pick one reason: research opportunities.

UC Berkeley has a great neurobiology department. Go there. What is your reasoning for not? It's a state school - the tuition most be more or less the same.

And yes, you'll make more money with a more prestigious degree. Whether people want to admit it or not.

There's a reason many medical schools make you retake prereq classes at a university if the student transferred from a community college. Good reasons.

I don't understand why you just wouldn't go to UC Berkeley in the first place?

Signed,

A Harvard University PhD Candidate

[Eph]

Originally Posted by goober

Certainly the differences in reputation between UCD and UCB are fairly small IMO not a large chasm.

Are you kidding? UC Berkeley is ranked 9th in the USA for neurosciences. UC Davis isn't even on the list.

In molecular biology it is ranked 4th. Cal Davis is ranked 34th.


No difference at all, eh?


NB I compared both because depending on the school and the research track "neurosciences" can mean a lot of different things.


PS: Please go to any top 10 university and find a professor there who went to a school outside of the top 20. Sure, that's a bit hyperbolic, but you get my point. It's gonna take awhile. And that's not hyperbolic.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by Eph

Yes, it's worth it to go to the best college as soon as possible.

Why? If I had to pick one reason: research opportunities.

UC Berkeley has a great neurobiology department. Go there. What is your reasoning for not? It's a state school - the tuition most be more or less the same.

And yes, you'll make more money with a more prestigious degree. Whether people want to admit it or not.

There's a reason many medical schools make you retake prereq classes at a university if the student transferred from a community college. Good reasons.

I don't understand why you just wouldn't go to UC Berkeley in the first place?

Signed,

A Harvard University PhD Candidate

I would like to see the study that shows elite school grads make more than the average state school grad. If you're talking the 1% of niche fields/jobs, then okay. If you're talking the 99% that get finance, education, history degrees, I don't buy it. Will it open more doors, yes. Does it guarantee more income, no.

[Eph]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

I would like to see the study that shows elite school grads make more than the average state school grad. If you're talking the 1% of niche fields/jobs, then okay. If you're talking the 99% that get finance, education, history degrees, I don't buy it. Will it open more doors, yes. Does it guarantee more income, no.

Maybe that's the difference between an Ivy League mindset and the other 99.9%: I was talking about satisfying your intellectual curiosity, not making more money later on. In fact, I don't think I mentioned money once. A lot of other people did though. For me, what's important is learning and participating in groundbreaking research, not what my paycheck says, as long as I can provide for myself.

:shrug:

EDIT:

I take it back, I did mention money. That was more of a side point, to my reasoning for attending a top (in-state) school, though. What's great about UC Berkeley is you pay in-state tuition, and get a top education. Compounding interesting can be wonderful, but also terrible. As for making more money and directly answering your question: well, the networking is there as people have discussed ad nausem. And as I said, g'luck finding a professor at Harvard who went to a sub 30 school in their field.

[Bud]

Take the extra time and go to UCB, if you're still undecided between UCB and UCD.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by Eph

Maybe that's the difference between an Ivy League mindset and the other 99.9%: I was talking about satisfying your intellectual curiosity, not making more money later on. In fact, I don't think I mentioned money once. A lot of other people did though. For me, what's important is learning and participating in groundbreaking research, not what my paycheck says, as long as I can provide for myself.

:shrug:

EDIT:

I take it back, I did mention money. That was more of a side point, to my reasoning for attending a top (in state) school, though.

So you're saying only the "ivy league mindset" is one of intellectual curiosity? You can't do groundbreaking research at Texas, Berk, Davis, UNC, UVA, Michigan St? A lot students have no desire to attend an Ivy, even those with the stats to get in. I was intellectually curious but football was my meal ticket (along with girls, girls, girls/social opps and warm weather ).

http://www.smartmoney.com/Personal-F...-Making-Money/

[Eph]

1) When I referred to an "Ivy League mindset" I was referring to the top schools. UC Berkeley falls into that category of "top school."

2) You can do groundbreaking research at any top 10 school. Once you get outside of the top 20s, you start running into funding issues.

3) I noticed you picked schools that are highly ranked.

4)

IS AN IVY LEAGUE education worth the money?

This premise is ********. I didn't read past that as it's typical mindless propaganda. Barely no one at an Ivy League pays the full price. (Or any school for that matter) E.g. At Harvard, if your parents make under 60k, you go for free. 60-250k, 1/10th the income.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by ogruskie

So it would look better to have a high GPA in a decent school as opposed to a low GPA in a top tier school?

Not really, IMO. I tend to believe that a low GPA from a top tier school equals a high GPA from a lesser school. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's because the competition is so much tougher at the top tier school.

I'll use my tennis example again, is getting to the final of a small futures event a better result than getting to the 3rd round of the US Open? No, because the competition at the US Open is so much tougher than it is at the small futures event.

[Kobble]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

I would say be careful about California schools right now and I teach at a state school. Due to budget cuts, many students need 5, even 6 years to earn a BS due to lack of classes/profs/etc. My wife's cousin is graduating from San Fran State this month and it took 5 1/2 years due to class availability issues. If Oregon, Oregon St, or other bordering states/unis have similar programs I would give them a look. A co-worker's son recently started at San Diego St but was also accepted at U of Oregon and the annual cost was quite similar, even with out of state tuition.

Same **** happened to me, and it was a ***** to explain to my first employer, because my GPA was pretty good, especially for certain classes, but he had this wondering look on his face. Another kid who got accepted into med school took 5 1/2, and felt whipped. It worries the crap out of you, and starts to burn you out. It has been happening in Florida for a while, and Jeb Bush's solution was to blame it on the students and say they are lazy or something, and decided to cut student aid back. I started college in the last years of the Clinton administration, and when the Bush administration came around, and Jeb was fully in control of Florida, it was shitty. I started getting locked out of chem classes because they would have like a 2 to 1 ratio of available seats for lecture to lab, and you couldn't take the lecture without the lab. Ridiculous!

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by Eph

1) When I referred to an "Ivy League mindset" I was referring to the top schools. UC Berkeley falls into that category of "top school."

2) You can do groundbreaking research at any top 10 school. Once you get outside of the top 20s, you start running into funding issues.

3) I noticed you picked schools that are highly ranked.

4) This premise is ********. I didn't read past that as it's typical mindless propaganda. Barely no one at an Ivy League pays the full price. (Or any school for that matter) E.g. At Harvard, if your parents make under 60k, you go for free. 60-250k, 1/10th the income.

1+2. Okay, you don't think groundbreaking research is coming from U of South Carolina, Missouri, Oregon St, U of Georgia, Texas A&M in many fields? You don't think there are plenty of kids that want to stay in-state, for a multitude of reasons?

3. If you mean top 30 public universities, then yes.

4. It's not a perfect study but I'm waiting for someone to show me a study with the opposite conclusion. Why would SmartMoney, of all publications, be biased against Ivy schools? Any how many kids with parents making <60k are at Ivy schools?