mental strength: Sampras or Federer? - Page 46

Chadwixx · 12-16-2009, 09:44 AM

That first link is from 2003. The guns and measuring system have changed since then. They were using physically different guns for stella/davis cup back then(where roddick set his records, clocked it off the strings), so im assuming he was referring to those guns, not the ones used at grand slams/other events. I think the other gun measured around the T on the servers side.

I agree about the gun positioning. I have been clocked at upto 120 (im a baseliner though). I did hit a few i thought were much harder than the registerd 120 but showed up at like 105. Seems if you hit the serve directly at the gun it gives you a bit more.

Agassi wasnt a typical pro athlete. He wasnt fit or strong until 1997. Go back and look at some video of him, very skinny legs/arm and no chest. Combine that with modern technology (look into what happened when someone accidently put poly into agassi's fram in rome, i think, he was mad, love it and never went back). Agassi was much stronger post 1997 then he was before that. I think he was on steroids but thats another issue.

Chadwixx · 12-16-2009, 09:47 AM

"as anyone who’s been hitting with different racquets over the years would attest that these new racquets do very little to speed up serves."

This is inaccurate. Once i went to my ncode 95's (with poly) my serve got alot faster.

Driver's Seat · 12-16-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

That first link is from 2003. The guns and measuring system have changed since then. They were using physically different guns for stella/davis cup back then(where roddick set his records, clocked it off the strings), so im assuming he was referring to those guns, not the ones used at grand slams/other events. I think the other gun measured around the T on the servers side.

I agree about the gun positioning. I have been clocked at upto 120 (im a baseliner though). I did hit a few i thought were much harder than the registerd 120 but showed up at like 105. Seems if you hit the serve directly at the gun it gives you a bit more.

Agassi wasnt a typical pro athlete. He wasnt fit or strong until 1997. Go back and look at some video of him, very skinny legs/arm and no chest. Combine that with modern technology (look into what happened when someone accidently put poly into agassi's fram in rome, i think, he was mad, love it and never went back). Agassi was much stronger post 1997 then he was before that. I think he was on steroids but thats another issue.

Agassi was a smarter player as he aged but Agassi in 95 was still probably at the peak of his powers. He was having an all time great, best season in 95 overrall until Sampras put a stop to it at the USO.

Chadwixx · 12-16-2009, 10:13 AM

Agassi isnt a smart player, never was. He was an academy mule, he simply hits the target. He doesnt think, he reacts.

Btw, nice post Nonp. That information is very hard to dig up. You wont hear anything from the atp because juicing their guns would discredit the sport.

ksbh · 12-16-2009, 10:40 AM

So according to GasquetGOAT, 8489 is now a Sampras fanatic? ROFL ... Cesc was right about you ... you're no GOAT, you're a clown GasquetCLOWN.

8489- Remarkably objective posts, my friend. Welcome to my signature!

NonP · 12-16-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

That first link is from 2003. The guns and measuring system have changed since then. They were using physically different guns for stella/davis cup back then(where roddick set his records, clocked it off the strings), so im assuming he was referring to those guns, not the ones used at grand slams/other events. I think the other gun measured around the T on the servers side.

Actually the guns used at the Slams haven’t changed much since the ’02 US Open. All the four Slams use the IBM radar gun, and they do measure the ball’s speed as it leaves the racquet:

http://www-07.ibm.com/innovation/au/...ons/radar.html
http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/gra...ons/radar.html
http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/about...echnology.html
http://www.usopen.org/ibm/index.html?promo=footer

And yeah, the Davis Cup did and still does use a different radar system called RacquetRadar. I’ll just quote from the June 2004 issue of TENNIS mag:

Quote:

Developed by a South Africa-based company, EDH Sport, RacquetRadar uses phased-array tracking radar--a technology employed by the U.S. military that guides missiles to their targets, among other things. With phased-array, the ITF can provide the most accurate measurement of serve speeds to date.

How accurate? Measurements are within one-tenth of a percent of the actual speed in any direction. That last part--“in any direction”--is key. The traditional police-style radar system, which is used at virtually all tennis events, can only measure the speed of the ball in one dimension. The net effect is that the gun takes accurate readings of objects moving directly toward it. On a tennis court, that direction is typically down the T of the service box because the gun is positioned behind the baseline, lined up with the center hash mark. On serves out wide? The gun can underestimate the speed by as much as 15 percent, depending on the angle at which the ball is traveling.

Phased-array radar uses multiple sensors to measure the ball in three dimensions so you get a truer reading of serves, out wide or otherwise.

This is the radar array I was talking about. The article goes on to say the Queen's Club tournament also uses a similar system, but that’s the only other event I can confirm that employs phased-array tech. (I’m guessing the company’s hype that their product is used at "a host of events" is just typical PR.) A certain Charles Bricker also names these two events only:

http://www.tennisnews.com/exclusive.php?pID=29278

He also says that the phased-array system reads about 8-10 mph above the IBM radar gun. I suppose the discrepancy is due in large part to the readings on serves out wide, but not entirely 'cause the TENNIS mag article also says this:

Quote:

Through a variety of quality-control measures, such as using two guns (one behind each baseline), IDS [the company that according to the article operates the gun at the Slams] can produce reliable statistics despite the inherent limitations of police radar. So, for example, wide serves with the IDS gun are undervalued by an average of only 2 percent.

(For the record the Wimbledon website says that IDS works with IBM to provide, among others, radar speed displays. I'm not sure which company is in charge of the actual radar technology.)

Quote:

Agassi wasnt a typical pro athlete. He wasnt fit or strong until 1997. Go back and look at some video of him, very skinny legs/arm and no chest. Combine that with modern technology (look into what happened when someone accidently put poly into agassi's fram in rome, i think, he was mad, love it and never went back). Agassi was much stronger post 1997 then he was before that. I think he was on steroids but thats another issue.

Do I really need to recite the cliche about judging a book by its cover? And many players would dispute your claim about Agassi’s fitness and strength during his Image Period. When he burst onto the scene almost everyone marveled at how hard he could whack the ball and take it so darn early.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

"as anyone who’s been hitting with different racquets over the years would attest that these new racquets do very little to speed up serves."

This is inaccurate. Once i went to my ncode 95's (with poly) my serve got alot faster.

Again, we should be wary of using our own experiences to draw conclusions about pros. These athletes are different animals. And how much is "alot"? Were you already serving up to 120 when you switched to nCode? It may well be your improved technique that boosted your mph, not your new racquet itself. Skilled players can serve with just about the same speed even with a wood racquet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

Btw, nice post Nonp. That information is very hard to dig up. You wont hear anything from the atp because juicing their guns would discredit the sport.

Thanks. Small beef, though: I don't like the term "juicing" 'cause it somehow implies that there's something wrong with using this new technology when there's not. Of course this very term is bandied about pretty much the same way in the doping debate, but that's a different matter altogether.

Chadwixx · 12-16-2009, 06:47 PM

Excellent post. Very informative, thanks.

Agassi had a big forehand, not much else, "a haircut and a forehand". At the end he had big everything, except a volley. 20 years on the pro tour and still cant volley? WTF

120 is with a good breeze at my back and 100%, I dont do that all day. But i def notice a difference with the ncode, more elastic power i guess. Im gettin worse not better

I used juicing for the crowd appeal. Bigger numbers are always better.

GasquetGOAT · 12-16-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksbh

So according to GasquetGOAT, 8489 is now a Sampras fanatic? ROFL ... Cesc was right about you ... you're no GOAT, you're a clown GasquetCLOWN.

8489- Remarkably objective posts, my friend. Welcome to my signature!

..Says the ClownTroll who created this stupid thread with his retard logic just to bash Federer (which he failed miserably LOL). How ******** is for someone like you to even speak about "objective post"? LMAO.

Federer haters just can't accept the fact Federer's achievements have surpassed all of their heroes. The truth hurts. ******** trolls can keep trolling about Federer all you want but you're not gonna achieve anything except looking like retards.

nCode2010 · 12-16-2009, 10:09 PM

Can we get back to the issue at hand? Sampras was never mentally that tough.

ksbh · 12-17-2009, 06:24 AM

You're a fanatic so it's futile discussing with you. You're a *******, so change your moniker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasquetGOAT

..Says the ClownTroll who created this stupid thread with his retard logic just to bash Federer (which he failed miserably LOL). How ******** is for someone like you to even speak about "objective post"? LMAO.

Federer haters just can't accept the fact Federer's achievements have surpassed all of their heroes. The truth hurts. ******** trolls can keep trolling about Federer all you want but you're not gonna achieve anything except looking like retards.

ksbh · 12-17-2009, 06:26 AM

Chad ... you guys need to make up your mind. You change opinions faster than a chameleon changing colors!

When someone pointed out a few months ago that Federer beat an old & aging Agassi in the U.S Open final, the Feddie fans rushed here to tell us how great Agassi was despite his age! And now he just had a great forehand! Which is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

Excellent post. Very informative, thanks.

Agassi had a big forehand, not much else, "a haircut and a forehand". At the end he had big everything, except a volley. 20 years on the pro tour and still cant volley? WTF

120 is with a good breeze at my back and 100%, I dont do that all day. But i def notice a difference with the ncode, more elastic power i guess. Im gettin worse not better

I used juicing for the crowd appeal. Bigger numbers are always better.

NoobWannabe · 12-17-2009, 07:36 AM

agassi dont belong here in this thread, he used drug, he lied, and he get paid a couple mils to come out....

Chadwixx · 12-17-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksbh

Chad ... you guys need to make up your mind. You change opinions faster than a chameleon changing colors!

When someone pointed out a few months ago that Federer beat an old & aging Agassi in the U.S Open final, the Feddie fans rushed here to tell us how great Agassi was despite his age! And now he just had a great forehand! Which is it?

Was talking about second half agassi (after being allowed to fail drug tests

). Your reading skills blow man

ksbh · 12-17-2009, 08:36 AM

Re: the drug test- LOL, this is why I say the ACP needs a quick overhaul before those bunch of wan*kers make this sport obsolete!

As for my reading skills, thats what happens if you read all of GasquetClown's posts! ROFL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

Was talking about second half agassi (after being allowed to fail drug tests

). Your reading skills blow man

TheFifthSet · 12-17-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksbh

When someone pointed out a few months ago that Federer beat an old & aging Agassi in the U.S Open final, the Feddie fans rushed here to tell us how great Agassi was despite his age! And now he just had a great forehand! Which is it?

Why must you always protray Federer fans to be the same in every way? So one Federer fan disagrees in one aspect of one thing that another Federer fan does not agree on. So what? Do all Federer fans have to have a consistent view of Agassi?

Anyway, I agree with lawrence: you make a thread asking a question but you refuse to listen to any answer. A tad strange, no?

NAH, because you're not looking for answers. You've already got yours.

ksbh · 12-17-2009, 09:16 AM

Easy now, 5th ! Most of us haven't even seen each other! Nothing personal. All in good fun

As regards the answers, I've already accepted several answers from the Federer fans and rejected some that I don't agree with. I honestly don't see what Larry's problem is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFifthSet

Why must you always protray Federer fans to be the same in every way? So one Federer fan disagrees in one aspect of one thing that another Federer fan does not agree on. So what? Do all Federer fans have to have a consistent view of Agassi?

Anyway, I agree with lawrence: you make a thread asking a question but you refuse to listen to any answer. A tad strange, no?

NAH, because you're not looking for answers. You've already got yours.

GasquetGOAT · 12-17-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksbh

You're a fanatic so it's futile discussing with you. You're a *******, so change your moniker.

LOL, and you are a Federer hater so same to you its futile to discuss anything logical to YOU. Why can't you admit this to yourself? Don't live in denial hater!

ksbh · 12-17-2009, 10:50 AM

This is proof that you need to spend more time at school than on a forum. I've stated several times that I can't stand that Swiss man with a nose 'wide as a highway' and yet you tell me I'm in denial.

And unlike you, I don't pretend to be a fan of another player. Gasquet. ROFL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasquetGOAT

LOL, and you are a Federer hater so same to you its futile to discuss anything logical to YOU. Why can't you admit this to yourself? Don't live in denial hater!

NonP · 12-18-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

Excellent post. Very informative, thanks.

No prob.

Quote:

Agassi had a big forehand, not much else, "a haircut and a forehand". At the end he had big everything, except a volley. 20 years on the pro tour and still cant volley? WTF

Agassi actually used to hit it even earlier on the rise. Can't dispute the volley part. If you're interested there's been a good discussion of Agassi vs. Lendl in the Former Pro section.

Quote:

120 is with a good breeze at my back and 100%, I dont do that all day. But i def notice a difference with the ncode, more elastic power i guess. Im gettin worse not better

I used juicing for the crowd appeal. Bigger numbers are always better.

Gotcha.

hoodjem · 01-04-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonP

Agassi actually used to hit it even earlier on the rise. Can't dispute the volley part. If you're interested there's been a good discussion of Agassi vs. Lendl in the Former Pro section.

Just thought I would look it up: Agassi H2H with Lendl.

6-2 for Lendl with Ivan winning the first six, and Andre the last two meetings

1993 New Haven CT, U.S.A. Hard Q Agassi, Andre 6-3, 6-4
1992 ATP Masters Series Canada Toronto, Canada Hard F Agassi, Andre 3-6, 6-2, 6-0
1989 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard S Lendl, Ivan 7-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-1
1989 Montreal/Toronto Montreal, Canada Hard S Lendl, Ivan 6-2, 3-6, 6-4
1989 Forest Hills NY, U.S.A. Clay S Lendl, Ivan 6-2, 6-3
1988 Masters NY, U.S.A.Carpet RR Lendl, Ivan 1-6, 7-6, 6-3
1988 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard S Lendl, Ivan 4-6, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4
1987 Stratton Mountain VT, U.S.A. Hard S Lendl, Ivan 6-2, 5-7, 6-3

12-16-2009, 10:40 AM	#905
ksbh Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,971	So according to GasquetGOAT, 8489 is now a Sampras fanatic? ROFL ... Cesc was right about you ... you're no GOAT, you're a clown GasquetCLOWN. 8489- Remarkably objective posts, my friend. Welcome to my signature! __________________ No, that's a pic of ksbh himself. He's an over-the -hill Indian actor who is trying to fan the dying embers of his falling google rankings- Sentinel

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