How to beat a pusher?

[GuyClinch]

Pushers because they have no offensive game allow you many ways to beat them IF your own offensive game is up to snuff. The old school chip and charge/S&V game works fine. But so does the modern baseline bashing style. All I can say is I don't favour changing my whole strategy because a guy is a pusher. I'd rather work on my game until I can beat that pusher using my strategy.

Pete

[ManuGinobili]

The first step in beating the guy is giving him respect: You're saying his forehand is ******* you off, and you know you can beat him... well the truth is you're just not giving him credit even though he IS better than you.
When you've learned to give the opponent respect, then you are more likely to stay relax and not prone to stressing out (like "why the hell am I losing to this loser?" kinda BS). Staying sane is one of the keys to beat pushers.

Another thing, the advices have been all over the places because you haven't given us a description of your style of play: strengths, weaknesses...i.e., if you're not good at volleying then why charge recklessly up just to be lobbed or passed, that will piss you off even more.

Anyway,in short, in matchplay, you'll need constant accuracy and variety regardless of style (power, spin, flat, or... push, lol).

[SFrazeur]

Originally Posted by maddogz32

How to beat a pusher?

Let your imagination go wild!

-SF

[ScoopsHaaganDazs]

Originally Posted by SFrazeur

Let your imagination go wild!

-SF

Obviously, he's telling you to baseball swing your backhand AND your forehand to hit massive winners. Or hit homeruns every point so your opponent will forfeit.

Anyways, I don't like how theres always so many people who think they are better than pushers if they keep losing to them. I'm not necessarily talking about the OP. If you can't beat this supposedly weak pusher, then you're not better. Just because you beat someone once doesn't mean you are better than them either. Actually, what makes someone better than another is debatable as well.

If this pusher doesn't hit strokes at all, try to keep aiming at one side. Once they are far enough to one side, hit to the other side where its empty. Then again, hitting to where they are not is very basic and general in tennis. Many things would work. Actually, I'm not really adding anything important. I should stop talking now.

Basically, what the other posters said.

[user92626]

Use this simple strategy to beat any pusher:

- Athleticism to get to any ball.
- Just use your groundstrokes (and sometimes slice) if you indeed have them, and hit to an open area!

Frankly, this strategy has not failed me against any pusher or weak hitter of any type.

[KenC]

Until winning ugly is severely frowned upon, "pushing" at a competitive level will always be an option. Although I don't really think pushing is a sought after technique, I think it evolves from people being too cautious and lacking confidence in their shots. I also don't think that it would be that hard to beat a pusher if one has solid strokes and strategy. If you think about it, when we play tennis we try to hit shots that put our opponents on the defensive, and then we crush those defensive "pusher" returns. Put a pusher in front of me in a competitive situation and I will say thanks for the easy win. I think its much harder to beat a confident player with obvious talent than a cautious pusher.

In other words, every pusher shot is ripe for better offensive shots until a clear winner is available. It just takes confidence. If you don't have the confidence needed to beat a pusher who lacks confidence, then you are probably a pusher as well in a competitive situation.

So, stand up straight like a real man and go crush that pansy.

[user92626]

Originally Posted by KenC

In other words, every pusher shot is ripe for better offensive shots until a clear winner is available. It just takes confidence. If you don't have the confidence needed to beat a pusher who lacks confidence, then you are probably a pusher as well in a competitive situation.

So, stand up straight like a real man and go crush that pansy.

Well, I wouldn't generalize all pushing type players as pansy and lack of confidence. What about those who literally don't know how to hit an offensive, winner-type shot and have to keep hitting the shots they know? How would confidence help if a person didn't possess the skill to hit an offensive shot?

[SFrazeur]

Originally Posted by ScoopsHaaganDazs

Obviously, he's telling you to baseball swing your backhand AND your forehand to hit massive winners. Or hit homeruns every point so your opponent will forfeit.

Ehh. More like going Sammy Sosa on their kneecaps, but whatever.

-SF

[KenC]

Originally Posted by user92626

Well, I wouldn't generalize all pushing type players as pansy and lack of confidence. What about those who literally don't know how to hit an offensive, winner-type shot and have to keep hitting the shots they know? How would confidence help if a person didn't possess the skill to hit an offensive shot?

Those people are still beginners.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what a pusher is and what a pusher is not. I am sometimes confused about the definition as well, especially when people call Murray a pusher. Generally, people acknowledge that, when needed, pushers can come up with an offensive shot. They just choose to hit 100% safely and force their opponent to eventually lose the point. I am now personally defining pushers as players with a lack of confidence in their shots but have a strong desire to win. I previously thought pushers were those who literally "push" the ball with their elbows and wrists, but for now on I will just call them hackers.

Anyway, I really doubt that anyone who doesn't at least have the skill to hit an offensive shot is capable of beating someone who is, even if they are an accomplished pusher.

I really think winning in tennis is all about developing confidence, which is developed through great practice. That is why in clutch situations Federer, Nadal and a few others are consistently able to thwart off match points by hitting winners.

I will argue that people lose against classic pushers because they too lack confidence in their shots. After all, a pusher shot is not an aggressive, offensive shot by definition, which should be easy prey for someone who can play offensively.

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Originally Posted by mikeler

I'm a short and sweet person, but the long response was excellent in this case.

Thank you. I just feel that evidence should be offered and how one REALLY thinks during a match against a pusher, because THAT is the most important aspect other than having shots you can rely on.

I mean, if you're an excellent strategist, then you can destroy everyone with a single reliable weapon/stroke. Anything more would just widen the gap and be overkill.

I'm not saying I'm an excellent strategist, but I'm far better in tactics than most of my peers simply because I have so many shots I can rely on, so I have so many options available to me. But if I was limited to a single shot, I COULD come up with some sort of strategy to compensate, though it would be very difficult.

Problem with my evidence is that it doesn't translate to all pushers. Some might have incredible serves, but most don't. But if you have incredibly reliable shots available to you, then you can bash/spin balls in mindlessly and outrally them simply by placing the shots once the rally begins. Once you reach this point of owning consistent and reliable shots, then it's a matter of waiting for that single passive, defensive, or sub par response that you can attack. That's all you need to control the point, which is why first strike tennis and recognizing your opportunities is so huge in tennis.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by xFullCourtTenniSx

Thank you. I just feel that evidence should be offered and how one REALLY thinks during a match against a pusher, because THAT is the most important aspect other than having shots you can rely on.

I mean, if you're an excellent strategist, then you can destroy everyone with a single reliable weapon/stroke. Anything more would just widen the gap and be overkill.

I'm not saying I'm an excellent strategist, but I'm far better in tactics than most of my peers simply because I have so many shots I can rely on, so I have so many options available to me. But if I was limited to a single shot, I COULD come up with some sort of strategy to compensate, though it would be very difficult.

Problem with my evidence is that it doesn't translate to all pushers. Some might have incredible serves, but most don't. But if you have incredibly reliable shots available to you, then you can bash/spin balls in mindlessly and outrally them simply by placing the shots once the rally begins. Once you reach this point of owning consistent and reliable shots, then it's a matter of waiting for that single passive, defensive, or sub par response that you can attack. That's all you need to control the point, which is why first strike tennis and recognizing your opportunities is so huge in tennis.

Good point...

Beating a pusher is not an easy task until you reach a certain skill level in tennis... because a pushers strategy is predicated on the fact that errors are what loses you tennis matches. And without question this is true at lower levels of tennis. As much as you would like to believe you hit more winners than the errors you make... it simply is not true. The pusher knows this... and their whole strategy is to make less errors than you... NO... they are not trying to beat you... they are going to let you beat yourself.

[user92626]

Originally Posted by KenC

I really think winning in tennis is all about developing confidence, which is developed through great practice. That is why in clutch situations Federer, Nadal and a few others are consistently able to thwart off match points by hitting winners.

I will argue that people lose against classic pushers because they too lack confidence in their shots. After all, a pusher shot is not an aggressive, offensive shot by definition, which should be easy prey for someone who can play offensively.

Fair enough, KenC, when you go with that definition of your own.

To me, pushers are those with half-baked, foundation less strokes. All they care about is get the ball back into oppon's court. As a result, their shots are unlikely giving capable opponents pressure.

Anyway, I like you post (the highlighted part). I forgot that aspect completely and really struggled to get some simple strokes going. After a few times failed, less confidence crept in and it's just a downward spiral.

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

Good point...

Beating a pusher is not an easy task until you reach a certain skill level in tennis... because a pushers strategy is predicated on the fact that errors are what loses you tennis matches. And without question this is true at lower levels of tennis. As much as you would like to believe you hit more winners than the errors you make... it simply is not true. The pusher knows this... and their whole strategy is to make less errors than you... NO... they are not trying to beat you... they are going to let you beat yourself.

Well, you know you're playing solid tennis for a baseline basher if your unforced errors are roughly at the same count as your winners on a very consistent basis. And you know you're playing very high level tennis when your winners outnumber your errors consistently. Obviously this is only against players of even skill level. If I play people below me, I'm going to bust out +10 on winners over errors. If I play people at my level, I'm going to be around even, maybe even down a bit simply because missing a crosscourt shot on the full run is still an unforced error for us.

There are even occasions where top pros come out down in their winners to errors ratio. It's rather difficult to hit a winner against someone on your level, and you're going to be hitting a rather steady amount of errors regardless of what level you play, but your level and play style determine your average count. A pro counterpuncher like Nadal and Murray are usually under 5 a set. An aggressive player on Federer's level hovers around 5-10, even though 10 is a lot. And throughout all that, they'll hit around 10 winners a set playing well.

I mean, if you can keep your unforced errors in the single digits, and still hit 5 winners per set, then you're doing well against someone on your level. The instant you're in the double digit zone, then you're in a bad position, especially against pushers.

The numbers simply dictate that you will make errors. The good players keep those numbers in the single digits and hit roughly the same amount of winners, if not a few more winners than errors. Pushers realize this when most 3.0-4.0 players don't, and thrive on the fact that those players will try to look good by playing shots they don't own or trying to blow the pusher off the court. Now, if you can put a real, thought-out purpose to each stroke you hit, it doesn't really matter how you hit it as long as it achieves that purpose. The purpose can vary from making them bend, put them on the full run, drag them forward, push them back, or going over their heads. Real tennis comes from being able to use your shots with a specific goal in mind for each shot. If you can set a goal for what each shot is supposed to do, and have that shot accomplish that goal, then it doesn't matter how great the shot is. As you progress though, your shots will have more on them. But if they do end up having less on them (due to age), then you'll still be able to control the ball, which is the most important thing to winning.

[TennisKid1]

bring them to the net and hit a lob. once they run back you run up to the net and do a drop volley. continue until they become fatigued

[Kirko]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Pushers thrive on longer points since it gives you more chance to make an error. Pressure them by shortening the points. Get to the net or bring them up to the net. Watch for the lob, a favorite pusher shot.

I'm a "pusher" and when the point grows long my confidence swells. I hate to say it,but that works all the time

[Power Player]

You HAVE to follow your big shots to net and finish them.

[BlueBolat]

Originally Posted by xFullCourtTenniSx

Well... Then clearly you aren't good enough to beat him.

Beating pushers requires a mental strength that most players just don't have. It requires patience, confidence, and intelligence. The more flexible you are in your game, the more you can do to hurt them. The problem is, few people choose to work on their second serves, their transition game, or their net game. So all the pusher has to do is out-rally you, which is easy against most people they play.

One great option already mentioned before is to shorten the points. If you don't like the junk they're giving you, then don't take it. I remember a pusher who had less than half a swing, but could still beat most high school players he faced. Why? They tried to out-rally him, blow him off the court, and all sorts of stupid things that played right into his plan. Though when he faced a 4.5+ player, he got blown off the court.

First thing is to find the first ball you can consistently crank on. For me against the pusher I just mentioned, that was his second serve. It was short, and it sat up, which made it great hitting practice for my forehand. Would that finish the point right away? Not always, so I follow it to the net and volley to the other side of the court at an angle, just outside his court coverage (and I mean JUST OUTSIDE; the fat guy is deceivingly quick). Wasn't even hard to do. The ball was at the perfect height with no pace, so I just bunted it to the side. The other chance I had at a first strike was off my serve. He stood so far back to return it, that I didn't really need to bomb it. Second serve or first serve, I just followed it to the net and finished with an open court volley. Obviously, you want to swing them wide, otherwise they can cover more court. You can serve down the middle if you want, but then you might need to hit a second volley to win the point.

I never rallied with him. I just didn't see any point in it. It took too long, and it didn't get the job done effectively. Off the first serve I had to chip and charge since I couldn't blow the ball off the first serve consistently, but it worked well anyways.

The concept is the same no matter what. Find the shot you can consistently attack and attack it. Put them on the move and finish at the net. If you let them back into the point, that's completely your own fault if you lose the point. You had a wide open window to close out the point but you failed to take it. You don't want to rally with them if it's not necessary. Sometimes, you need to be patient to get the shot you can attack. If you have to wait a REALLY long time for it, either you need a LOT of work on your consistency and aggressive game, or they're a counterpuncher and on a level far above you.

For dealing with counterpunchers, the idea remains more or less the same, though you have to be more patient. You may not be able to attack off every serve, and maybe not every second serve either. You'll have to rally until you get the short ball to attack and finish at the net. However, there's always multiple ways to finish the point easily, based off the opponent.

These players can't hurt you (well... good counterpunchers can given the right opportunities based on their level) and rely on you to hurt yourself. Once you realize that, you have to accept that you are your own worst enemy out there and play through it using easily repeatable shots that will give you the upper hand in the point, both in terms of positioning and consistency. This is why consistency is so important, as is a complete game. If you own every shot, then you always have another shot to fall back on to save your *** that might drive the other guy crazy.

X: I found your strategies and feedbacks really helpful. I actually tried your tactics this passed weekend and it worked great for me. I played with more confidence, intelligence, and patience! I normally rally the ball and try to hit winners all the time so basically my shots are pretty much predictable. After reading your post, I realized that I need to add more dimension in my game and play more tactiful to throw my opponent off with the timing. There's no reason for me to keep rallying and feeding the ball to my opponent's comfort zone. I started to slice the ball while rallying short, long, corners, so on and so forth. Like you said, "If you don't like the junk they're giving you, then don't take it." So I did drop shots, slices, lops, as opposed to force myself into rallying the ball back. This really pissed him off cuz he can't go up to the net because then i will lop the ball or if he stands on the baseline then i occassionaly drop shots the ball. He was so frustrated and exhausted from running. He didn't know how to counter my game plan. I also found that my strokes got alot better too because I was relax and controlling the game as opposed to running all over the court. Anyways, thanks for the valuable tips and it really helped developing my game.

[keepurpowderdry]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

Hurry him! Don't let him get comfortable on the baseline. Hit short to one corner, then long the other way. Feed him a variety of paces and spins. Tire him out by giving him a drop shot followed by a lob. Put the lobs on his backhand side, so that he has to run around them or hit the difficult, and weak, backhand overhead. Rush the net at unpredictable times. Remember, since he's a pusher, he's less of a threat to hit a winner so you are under less pressure in a way. Avoid errors, if you're confused as to what shot to hit, just hit down the middle and deep, you can always get aggressive on the next shot when playing a pusher.

Excellently put !!!!

[precision2b]

Originally Posted by ManuGinobili

The first step in beating the guy is giving him respect: You're saying his forehand is ******* you off, and you know you can beat him... well the truth is you're just not giving him credit even though he IS better than you.
When you've learned to give the opponent respect, then you are more likely to stay relax and not prone to stressing out (like "why the hell am I losing to this loser?" kinda BS). Staying sane is one of the keys to beat pushers.

Another thing, the advices have been all over the places because you haven't given us a description of your style of play: strengths, weaknesses...i.e., if you're not good at volleying then why charge recklessly up just to be lobbed or passed, that will piss you off even more.

Anyway,in short, in matchplay, you'll need constant accuracy and variety regardless of style (power, spin, flat, or... push, lol).

Well said...

Originally Posted by SFrazeur

Let your imagination go wild!

-SF

LOL!!! Best one yet....

[Mick]

Originally Posted by SFrazeur

Let your imagination go wild!

-SF

the post is true in the sense that you've got to have a weapon to beat a good pusher. people who don't have a weapon will never beat a pusher. he/she will just keep the point going until his/her opponent hits the ball out