The Six Playing Styles Described

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by makenakai

Tilden, in Match Play and The Spin of The Ball, said an all-court player is one who can vary his game at will in direction, speed, depth and spin so as to give an opponent what he least likes. A sort of "consistent inconsistency"

In other words, according to Big Bill, if you can effectively adapt your game to anyone, you're an all-courter.

I'd say that's a good "short and sweet" description. (One of my all-time favorite tennis books, BTW.)

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

When its my Ad I would 1(slice serve down the middle or 2(if my serve is really on kick wide. Attack the net whether serve 1 or 2 because in the past 2-3 months my volleys and serve have gotten better. If its their Ad im going for the kick wide.

If I understood your post correctly, I'd say your preferred style is S&V ... when you are serving.

Originally Posted by Davis937

I'm curious ... but ... before everyone jumps all over me I have to confess that I didn't look at the complete thread ... my question: was wondering if we have a rough breakdown of the percentage of players (not counting pros) who play each of the different styles of play ... that would be interesting to me ... I'm thinking that the "all court" or "counter puncher" style players lead the pack ... what sayeth thou?

Just off the top of my head (and remembering the median NTRP is 3.0)....

1) Baseline
2) Pusher
3) Junk Baller
4) Counter Puncher
5) Attack the Net
6) All Courter

Many players I've met over the years *think* they are All Courters, when they are not even close. (An All Courter excels at any style.) Very few people can actually do that....

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

KK, how would you beat a 6a and 6b if you were a good 4.0 baseliner?

The key to your answer, IMO, is your premise. A "good 4.0 baseliner" ought to be able to handle either a (6a) Soft-Baller / Pusher or a (6b) Retriever / Pusher. But you'll need to be patient and play your Baseliner game.

Just be prepared to play 8-12 shots per point on average (versus 4-6 against your common opponent at 4.0). Let me know if you have specific questions about the matchup.

Originally Posted by Wegner

Kaptain Karl, this thread you started is one of the best ever. I'd love to discuss with you doing a video together. My personal e-mail is tennisoscar@aol.com
Happy New Year,
Oscar Wegner
TennisTeacher.com

Thanks, Oscar. I'll shoot you an e-mail.

- KK

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by Kaptain Karl

The key to your answer, IMO, is your premise. A "good 4.0 baseliner" ought to be able to handle either a (6a) Soft-Baller / Pusher or a (6b) Retriever / Pusher. But you'll need to be patient and play your Baseliner game.

Just be prepared to play 8-12 shots per point on average (versus 4-6 against your common opponent at 4.0). Let me know if you have specific questions about the matchup.

- KK

I recently had a singles match against a 4.0 pusher who has slice forehands/backhands. He has shaky servers that don't give me much trouble. I was up 4-1 and ended up losing when I tried to play his pusher game (thinking it would mess his game up.) I thought about playing my game, keeping the balls deep and giving him the run, but it just seemed like he started adjusting. We have a best of 3 sets coming in a few weeks, so I'm still not sure if committing to my game will be enough to keep me from melting down when/if he ends up getting all those random free points that I'll probably give. I'm not very patient.

[Davis937]

Originally Posted by Kaptain Karl

I'd say that's a good "short and sweet" description. (One of my all-time favorite tennis books, BTW.)



If I understood your post correctly, I'd say your preferred style is S&V ... when you are serving.



Just off the top of my head (and remembering the median NTRP is 3.0)....

1) Baseline
2) Pusher
3) Junk Baller
4) Counter Puncher
5) Attack the Net
6) All Courter

Many players I've met over the years *think* they are All Courters, when they are not even close. (An All Courter excels at any style.) Very few people can actually do that....




The key to your answer, IMO, is your premise. A "good 4.0 baseliner" ought to be able to handle either a (6a) Soft-Baller / Pusher or a (6b) Retriever / Pusher. But you'll need to be patient and play your Baseliner game.

Just be prepared to play 8-12 shots per point on average (versus 4-6 against your common opponent at 4.0). Let me know if you have specific questions about the matchup.



Thanks, Oscar. I'll shoot you an e-mail.

- KK

... thanks for the response, Kaptain ... I was thinking that probably "pushers" (... the bane of all players who like "to hit out") would be at the top of the list ... I was thinking that life would be a lot simpler without pushers ... I really need to get away from the notion that "classic strokes" and "style points" are important in tennis ... obviously, they are not ... as I have so rudely found out *smile* ... nice, thread Kaptain ... keep up the good work!

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

I recently had a singles match against a 4.0 pusher who has slice forehands/backhands. He has shaky servers that don't give me much trouble. I was up 4-1 and ended up losing when I tried to play his pusher game (thinking it would mess his game up.) I thought about playing my game, keeping the balls deep and giving him the run, but it just seemed like he started adjusting. We have a best of 3 sets coming in a few weeks, so I'm still not sure if committing to my game will be enough to keep me from melting down when/if he ends up getting all those random free points that I'll probably give. I'm not very patient.

That last sentence makes your match-up pretty tough. I have questions....

Is one of his slice ground strokes clearly stronger than the other (FH / BH)? Which one?

Does he run ... better / worse / the same ... vertically versus horizontally?

How is he at the net? And how is your drop-shot? Your passing shots?

Usually a poor server also has a poor overhead. How is your lob?

How are you at attacking (really forcing or getting a clean winner) off his serve?

How are you at taking advantage of a "short-ish" ball and driving it for the winner?

Can you "pin" a player deep behind one corner with 3 or 4 ground strokes to the same deep corner?

- KK

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by Kaptain Karl

That last sentence makes your match-up pretty tough. I have questions....

Is one of his slice ground strokes clearly stronger than the other (FH / BH)? Which one?

Does he run ... better / worse / the same ... vertically versus horizontally?

How is he at the net? And how is your drop-shot? Your passing shots?

Usually a poor server also has a poor overhead. How is your lob?

How are you at attacking (really forcing or getting a clean winner) off his serve?

How are you at taking advantage of a "short-ish" ball and driving it for the winner?

Can you "pin" a player deep behind one corner with 3 or 4 ground strokes to the same deep corner?

- KK

He's clearly got a better bh slice. His fh is random, and I would compare it to Russian Roulette.

He's better side to side than going up and back.

He's better than me at the net, and my dropshots are HORRIBLE, but my disguise/passing shots are great against him and every other 4.0+ player I've encountered.

My lob is HORRIBLE.

My return game is improving, I'm learning how to control height/depth on the bh, and my fh is much deeper since I've improved my timing.

I don't really get short balls to put away, since I am always babysitting the baseline, so I'll have to say I'm 50/50 on that. It's mostly a comfort issue when coming to the net..

Yes, I can def. do that with both sides. My concentration/discipline has improved, and so has my footwork/swingspeed. I'm no longer a victim of a full-on emotional meltdown.. only partly though at times.

[Kaptain Karl]

Geez! You're not making this easy for "Coach KK." But I'll give you my best suggestions....

I'm rearranging your replies to help you see why I asked what I asked.

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

He's better side to side than going up and back.

He's better than me at the net, and my dropshots are HORRIBLE, but ....

My lob is HORRIBLE.

If you cannot drop/lob him with confidence, this tactic won't be helpful.

I don't really get short balls to put away, since I am always babysitting the baseline, so I'll have to say I'm 50/50 on that. It's mostly a comfort issue when coming to the net..

For the future, I'd suggest you work on identifying when your shot will produce a weak/short reply ... quickly move in 4-6 steps (which for a classic baseliner means you have moved in behind the Service Line) ... and *pounce* on that short ball with a clearly forcing shot (which will produce an even weaker reply) or a winner.

He's clearly got a better bh slice. His fh is random, and I would compare it to Russian Roulette.

My return game is improving, I'm learning how to control height/depth on the bh, and my fh is much deeper since I've improved my timing.

... my disguise/passing shots are great against him and every other 4.0+ player I've encountered.

Yes, I can def. do that [pin him] with both sides. My concentration/discipline has improved, and so has my footwork/swingspeed. I'm no longer a victim of a full-on emotional meltdown.. only partly though at times

These data are helpful.

Build a game plan around your ability to pin him, your FH Return and your comfort with your passing shots. (I know that seems "wrong". Bear with me....)

With your FH Return and any time you get into a baseline exchange, PIN him into his BH corner with 3-4 driving shots. At least one of those ought to produce a weaker-than-normal reply with which you can "pretend" he's come to net and hit your passing shot toward the FH corner for a winner.

Here's the key, you impatient player, you.... If his "russian roulette" FH happens to "work" that time, you need to play a little psychological trick on yourself. Instead of groaning to yourself, "Oh, this point will never end!," treat his successful FH return as the start of a new point. Just pin him on the FH side and hit your passing/winner to his BH side when he gives you a ball you can pounce on.

Rinse and repeat.

Also, if you don't have a drop-shot you can count on, but you do have the ability to hit a short ground stroke which he will use as an approach shot ... then you have two tactical approaches which work toward your favor. Just pass the snot out of him whenever he tires of being pinned and tries to come to the net.

How's that...?

- KK

[senna1rossi]

great read!

thanks.

[Kyle7286]

Great post!!! Thank you

[Wilander Fan]

Originally Posted by Kaptain Karl

I’ve put a lot of thought into this. Here’s my best shot at this -- garnered from over thirty years of playing, teaching and coaching tennis. Tell me what you think.

I describe the styles of play with Major Categories ... and Subcategories. Some of these groupings may surprise you, but please read through it before you fight me. Of course, I’m open to different views ... so long as you can support them.

<Edit> I am removing the examples of Pro Players from my descriptions. I agree with those who have suggested this creates confusion, rather than clarity. (Look at Roddick: When I made this guide he played quite differently than he has the last two years. He's just one example of a Pro NOT being a "pure" example of a style anymore....) </Edit>

My Major Categories of Playing Style are:

1 - Attack the Net
2 - Baseline
3 - Counter Punching
4 - Junk-Ball
5 - All Court
6 - Pusher

1 - Attack the Net should be pretty self-explanatory. This player constantly presses, probes and exploits the slightest weaknesses they uncover. They push forward and try to finish the large majority of their points with winning volleys. They relentlessly pressure you to try and come up with your best passing shots or lobs. They put you on “constant defense.”

What I expect might ruffle some feathers is how I consider S&V to be a subcategory of Attack the Net. The more I thought about it, the more I like this manner of codifying the styles. (I’ve observed many players who S&V ... on “offense”. But when Receiving, they are baseliners. Maybe they lack confidence in their Returns, so the attacker becomes a more patient Baseliner....)

1 a. - Serve & Volley

1 b. - Chip & Charger

1 a & b ^^^ “ought” to be self-explanatory. If they are not, let’s get more detailed.

2 - Baseline is the most prevalent broad category of choice for the last 15 years. Almost all the WTA players are in this category -- as are most of the ATP’s clay courters and even several ATP pros preferring hard courts. These players stalk the baseline and rarely *choose* to come to net.

2 a. - Blasters, as Baseliners, may have a big serve and a big forehand ... or just a reliable serve with big ground strokes. Blasters pound the ball into the corners ... down the line ... inside out. They jerk you from one side to the other putting you in the position of constantly being on the defensive. Any ball is fair game for them to “go for broke.” Most points against Blasters are over in less than ten shots; usually from the Blaster’s winner ... or unforced error.

2 b. - Machine Baseliners are the steadiest opponents you’ll ever meet. They may not have any single stroke which is their “big weapon,” but they relentlessly hit with pace ... running you from one side to the other ... sometimes even prolonging the points to wear you down in the end. They don’t seem to miss. They don’t seem to tire. They demoralize you with their stamina.

2 c. - Soft-Baller Baseliners are tireless players with excellent footwork and anticipation. They always seem to be where they need to be to cut down your angles of attack. You cannot get them to engage you in a power exchange. They seem to absorb all the power of your shots and redirect it with good deep placement, but they won’t give you any pace to work with. You must always supply your own power. This player exhausts you ... physically and mentally.

2 d. - Retriever Baseliners are quick and tireless. He believes he can get any ball back and becomes a “human backboard.” They rely on your misses, rather than any one “money shot” of their own. Their strength is that while retrieving, they keep you pinned to your own baseline. They have good depth and uniformly good pace on their strokes. They just don’t seem to work the corners or angles the way most baseliners do. If you are playing the baseline game yourself, you are in for a long day against the Retriever.

This style rarely exists beyond the club level. In my area, most of the top HS Girls -- and many JV Boys -- play this “war of attrition” style.

3 - Counter Punching players are always looking for the opportunity to *instantly* switch from safe defensive tennis ... to ripping winners. They can “change gears” with a single shot. Their passing shots are “thread the needle” accurate against those playing Attack the Net. Their drop-shots and lobs are deadly. Counter Punchers can detect and exploit the baseliners’ inadvertent openings ... and end the point with one “high risk” down-the-line winner ... or fool you with a short-angle inside-out forehand winner.

Opponents playing both Attack the Net and Baseline tennis are fooled into thinking “He can’t keep that up the whole match.” When do these opponents realize their error? Unfortunately, when -- befuddled -- they are shaking hands at the net and congratulating the Counter Puncher on a 6-3, 6-3 victory.

4 - Junk Ball players can drive the “purists” among us into the Nut House. These players never allow you to get into a rhythm. They vary the height, depth, angles and quantity of spin so much your “strokes” fall apart ... right after your brain explodes. Junk Ballers seem never to be out of breath and play high-percentage tennis when it comes to “court position.” When you do manage to get them on the run, you learn they are also very quick on their feet.

4 a. - Spin Doctor players are the highest developed of the Junk Ballers. They stroke the ball with pace (when they wish) but also with crazy slices, side spins, topspins and some spins we don’t yet have names for. Spin Doctors keep you off-balance, wrong footed and clumsily compensating for their shots by altering your own strokes. They are serious threats to both players who Attack the Net and Baseliners.

Most players would rather have a root canal than play these guys. Their tennis seems as much “psychological warfare” as it is “real tennis” competition. While Spin Doctors’ opponents frequently “lose their cool” during matches, the Doctors themselves tend to be some of the most unflappable players you will encounter.

4 b. - Chop Shot-er Junk Ballers are found all over the Recreational and Club levels of tennis. These players have mastered the Chop Slice shot so well, they rarely bother hitting a flat or topspin shot. Chop Shot-ers can put their chopped slice deep, short, angled and lobbed. They are very good at “working the wind” with their chops and can run the 4.0 and below opponent into the ground with their accurate shooting.

Chop Shot-ers play very good “position” and rarely have to run for your silly attempts to blast them off the court. When you do succeed in running them, you sadly discover they are some of the quickest players afoot. They love it when you try to overpower them ... because they are masters at redirecting your power with their junk.

(A friend near the bottom of our ladder is 74 ... and proudly informs the 20- and 30-somethings on the ladder (after badly beating them) that the rest of us call him “Mr. Chop Shot.”)

5 - All Court players are able to adapt their games to give them the best advantage ... against any opponent’s style ... in any weather condition ... however and whenever needed. They can Soft-Ball the Baseline Blaster. They can Attack the Net against the Junk Baller. They find what works best against the Counter Puncher that day and dismantle *that* game. The All Courter can blow some Baseline Machines off the court with an Attack the Net style. They can exhaust the Serve & Volleyer with Counter Punching.

At the highest levels, the All Courter may choose to play directly into his opponent’s strength. (Bill Tilden was notorious for this tactic. When asked why he attacked the other guys’ strengths, his answer was, “That way, once I’ve broken him down, all he has to fall back on ... are his weaknesses.”)

All Courters tend to be able to change strategies and tactics “on a dime.” They may, within a set -- even within a point -- switch from one pattern to another. They can keep you off-balance ... and unhappy.

<See next post>

- KK

Just want to say that was a very interesting and enjoyable read. You should think about writing for tennis journals or magazines.

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by Wilander Fan

Just want to say that was a very interesting and enjoyable read. You should think about writing for tennis journals or magazines.

Why, thank you. I do write (sort of) ... for Talk Tennis!

- KK

[John16]

Wow, one of the most interesting and complete pieces of writing I have ever seen concerning tennis. Nice job!

[Shadow Mix]

so.... can we say that the all rounders pwn all? Since they can adjust into playing various types of playstyles, btw If u all dont mind can u say what pwns what, like a cycle?


Ill say what I think ok?
Counterpunchers>S&V
S&V>Baseliners
Junk Ballers>Baseliners
Counterpunchers>Junkballers

Pusher depends on other players level right?
All Rounder>all

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

Is there such a thing as a pusher who is also friendly with the net? Cuz that's what I do...

I do usually just push it back, though I also frequently drop shot/lob/heavily slice, but I also approach the net lots, usually off a heavy slice. Mental toughness and speed are my best parts, which fits with pusher or counterpuncher I guess.

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by John16

Wow, one of the most interesting and complete pieces of writing I have ever seen concerning tennis. Nice job!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Shadow Mix

so.... can we say that the all rounders pwn all? Since they can adjust into playing various types of playstyles, btw If u all dont mind can u say what pwns what, like a cycle?


Ill say what I think ok?
Counterpunchers>S&V
S&V>Baseliners
Junk Ballers>Baseliners
Counterpunchers>Junkballers

Pusher depends on other players level right?
All Rounder>all

"pwns?" Sorry, I don't speak your language.

Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez2010

Is there such a thing as a pusher who is also friendly with the net? Cuz that's what I do...

I do usually just push it back, though I also frequently drop shot/lob/heavily slice, but I also approach the net lots, usually off a heavy slice. Mental toughness and speed are my best parts, which fits with pusher or counterpuncher I guess.

You seem like a form of Junk Baller to me.

- KK

[TheOneHander]

So I'm assuming "machine baseliner" is just another term for "grinder"?

[Mike2228]

Are the classes the same for doubles players or are there entirely different classes all together?

[Kaptain Karl]

Originally Posted by Mike2228

Are the classes the same for doubles players or are there entirely different classes all together?

Singles and Doubles are different enough I don't believe you can use these same player categories.

- KK

[MixieP]

Thanks for an interesting thread!

If one wants to spare one’s old body with its creaking joints and tender muscles, which of these playing styles would you recommend that one aspires to adopt?

[jack crack]

From the perspective of a relative newcomer/late starter, this was a fantastic analysis.

There is a counter-puncher 30 plus years my senior, who makes me work pretty hard as he waits to zap a corner shot/winner. No top spin, and a modest serve, but he knows how to use the tools he has.

I don't mind though. He is largely responsible for motivating my ever deeper immersion into tennis obsession. Good friend too.

Thanks KK

[phnx90]

One of the people I used to play with is a junkball/pusher, it drove me nuts. He'd consistently produce very high lobs that landed on the baseline until I made a mistake. It drove me nuts.