tennis rackets good for tennis elbow

[Bud]

Originally Posted by LuckyR

Well, PK's own data disagrees with you...

Originally Posted by jimanuel12

now i am confused again

Originally Posted by scotus

I am very much aware of that. Which is why I bought 3 Ki5s to begin with. But no, no, no. My arm told me over and over again that it was much much happier with 5G and 7G.

And there are plenty of other posters here who agree with my findings in this regard. They have used both 5G and Ki5 and find 5G superior in arm-friendliness.

Remember, my testing was not done with a healthy arm but an extremely sensitive, aching arm that would tell you exactly which frame sent up more shock and vibration.

To LuckyR... ask anyone with TE who has used both the 5G and the Ki5 and they overwhelmingly prefer the 5G (myself included).

[volusiano]

Originally Posted by LuckyR

The reason the Ionic has that name is that PK learned that the beads in the Kinetic develop static charges bouncing around in the body of the racquet, so they stick together and to the side walls, diminishing the Kinetic effect. By using something (I don't know what it is) to "ground" the beads, they bounce around randomly in the Ionic, hence better arm protection.

The 5i and 5G specs are close, but not exactly the same, so it's not really apple to apple comparison with the Ionic technology being the only difference. Beside, PK said they used a new Kinetic material and changed the process to implement the Ionic thing on the 5i. So that's a lot of different changes that might have added up together to make the 2 rackets different enough in terms of arm friendliness.

The marketing of the Ionic 56% performance improvement might have been focused more on the power than on the arm friendliness. That's why people say the 5i has more pop.

Yeah, PK claims "further reduction on frame shock and vibration" on the 5i, but I wonder how much of this is marketing BS and how much of it is based on scientific data, because how can you objectively measure frame shock and vibration?

I suspect the main focus of the Kinetic technology all along has been more about loading up the kinetic energy of the micro bearings for more power upon impact, than it is about reducing shock/vibration reduction. Shock and vibration reduction is a nice side benefit, but it is probably PK's secondary goal compare to the power benefit.

So PK probably just happened to come across the right formula that made the 5G very arm friendly by luck. But when they changed the formula on the 5i to get more pop out of it with the Ionic thing, they might have messed up the arm friendliness factor for the worse, eventhough PK marketing claims it should be better as well.

The real pudding in the test is when the rackets go to the hands of users and get tested by users, not when PK's marketing claims it is as such. So I would tend to believe the actual users more than PK's marketing claims.

I only have 2 PK 5Gs but I don't have any PK 5i, so I can't offer any personal opinion on the differences of the 2 regarding arm friendliness. I can only offer my guess above.

[ab70]

tried both Ki and 5G after shoulder surgery and went with 5i since there was a better blend of power and arm friendliness. Also tried 7G and felt that extra 0.5 inch was too much at this stage, but certainly is better for 2HBH.

[Fedace]

I think Volkl is the best line of rackets... with them, i feel almost NO vibration whatsoever...

[scotus]

Originally Posted by Fedace

I think Volkl is the best line of rackets... with them, i feel almost NO vibration whatsoever...

Which frames did you try?

I tried the venerable C10 Pro Tour and the DNX 10 MP.

ProKennex was better than C10 PT, and the DNX 10 MP was far from being arm-friendly.

[scotus]

volusiano,

If the kinetic system were originally designed for power enhancement, wouldn't it be illegal to use these PK racquets at tournaments?

I believe the regulations specify no moving parts on or inside racquets.

[volusiano]

Originally Posted by scotus

volusiano,

If the kinetic system were originally designed for power enhancement, wouldn't it be illegal to use these PK racquets at tournaments?

I believe the regulations specify no moving parts on or inside racquets.

Interesting point about this regulation. But even if that's the case regardless, it would be illegal no matter what the Kinetic technology were designed for, power or shock reduction or even just for fun with the rattling sound, don't you think?

[scotus]

Originally Posted by volusiano

Interesting point about this regulation. But even if that's the case regardless, it would be illegal no matter what the Kinetic technology were designed for, power or shock reduction or even just for fun with the rattling sound, don't you think?

You have a point there, but I think non-PK users would have brought it up at some point to tournament officials IF the kinetic system gave its users an unfair advantage.

As someone who has used all sorts of racquets, I am confident in saying that the power generated by PK frames with kinetic system is nothing remarkable.

[volusiano]

Originally Posted by scotus

You have a point there, but I think non-PK users would have brought it up at some point to tournament officials IF the kinetic system gave its users an unfair advantage.

As someone who has used all sorts of racquets, I am confident in saying that the power generated by PK frames with kinetic system is nothing remarkable.

Yep, I agree that the PK frames are not know for its power and are more known for its arm friendliness.

I'm not saying that the Kinetic technology is an effective technology for power improvement. I'm just saying that PK might have lucked out on the 5G/7G series when they implemented the Kinetic technology more with power in mind but ended up working out better for arm friendliness. Remember this is just my pure guess only. I'm just saying that whatever good formula they had in the 5G that worked for arm friendliness, they must have mucked it up when they made the changes to add in the Ionic stuff and apparently it took away some of that arm friendliness eventhough they claim that Ionic is supposed to be even more arm friendly.

The bottom line is what the users think matters, not what the manufacturer says. It reminds me of the New Coke vs Classic Coke story where Cocacola thought for sure they had a better winning formula with the New Coke, but users ended up liking the Classic Coke better anyway.

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by volusiano

Yep, I agree that the PK frames are not know for its power and are more known for its arm friendliness.

I'm not saying that the Kinetic technology is an effective technology for power improvement. I'm just saying that PK might have lucked out on the 5G/7G series when they implemented the Kinetic technology more with power in mind but ended up working out better for arm friendliness. Remember this is just my pure guess only. I'm just saying that whatever good formula they had in the 5G that worked for arm friendliness, they must have mucked it up when they made the changes to add in the Ionic stuff and apparently it took away some of that arm friendliness eventhough they claim that Ionic is supposed to be even more arm friendly.

The bottom line is what the users think matters, not what the manufacturer says.

Well the weight of the beads relative to the weight of the raquect body makes it unlikely that it is providing much in the way of power to the stick and all of us who have tried it will describe both sticks as various forms of dead feeling.

My personal experience was that the 5G helped me get rid of the TE but didn't do much for my game, I later used the 5i when it was available to add better game play and suffered no negative feeling to my arm, currently I have customized my 5i to be quite game friendly (very different to it's play, stock) and I still have no elbow issues.

I don't disagree with your experience nor your theory as to what PK's literature states, though my first guess is that there is some objective research data to back up their claims. We just don't know.

One thing is for sure, the 5G has cult-like status, so player's subjective feelings may be less accurate than it would seem.

[Ronaldo]

Had good luck with most of the Head Radical OS racquets, except for the LM series.

[volusiano]

Originally Posted by LuckyR

I don't disagree with your experience nor your theory as to what PK's literature states, though my first guess is that there is some objective research data to back up their claims. We just don't know.

One thing is for sure, the 5G has cult-like status, so player's subjective feelings may be less accurate than it would seem.

I fully agree that the arm friendliness is a very subjective thing. There's nothing wrong with you feeling that the 5i is just as arm friendly as the 5G, even if many more others prefer the 5G. Heck, for me personally, beside a couple of 5Gs, I also have a Wilson N 6.1 95, a Prince O3 Tour mid, and a Yonex RDS001 mid. And by now, I can't really say that the 5G is any more arm friendly than those other 3. Maybe in the beginning I might have had a bias on the 5G when I was still more vulnerable to TE. I think at this point for me, it's the right specs in all those rackets that bring me the arm friendliness, not the Kinetic technology from PK.

And I'm just trying to make sense and guess about something backward after the fact only (that more people on the board say they prefer the 5G), which is easy to do after the fact. But like you said, arm friendliness is such a subjective thing so how can any company measure arm friendliness? And if they can, why not show the data? But apparently they must have done something right with the 5G to have such a big group of followers.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Originally Posted by scotus

volusiano,

If the kinetic system were originally designed for power enhancement, wouldn't it be illegal to use these PK racquets at tournaments?

I believe the regulations specify no moving parts on or inside racquets.

I believe that the rules governing racquets was modified slightly to allow the PK technology. Currently, no movement within a racquet that results in a longitudinal shift in the balance point is allowed.

[siata94]

another data point...

When I got TE, I too started w/ the 5g and nat gut and low tension and it was, at the time, best thing since slice bread.

I've long since switched to the Fischer MPro1 105 SL and many times, I've tried picking up the 5G again. For my game, mishits and shanks are huge parts of my arsenal, the 5G still plays relatively stiff, indicative of its stiffness rating. Eventho the Fischer is slightly larger, it doesn't really help w/ my usual shanks but it plays very flexible as expected.

My TE prefers the Fischer.

[RalphNYC]

I have tendon pain that isn't technically "tennis elbow" but is equally problematic. I got it from changing my service motion and then serving a lot with the new motion. The pain that developed made it impossible to hit my 1HBH without pain. So I switched to a 2HBH (not an easy switch, but nowhere near as hard as I anticipated), and I serve more softly and don't look for aces, just spin it to the opponent's weaker side. This has allowed me to play tennis a lot again and really enjoy it.

[Karlovic's Sunglasses]

Try this little cushion- http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/desc...ml?PCODE=KPS88

[LafayetteHitter]

Volkl has quite a few that are very easy on the arm.

[jrod]

^^^^ Agree on Volkl being a possibility. I've never played with PK products but understand they place the emphasis on arm friendliness and less on performance. From the sounds of it, the OP is a player and needs to make adjustments to his equipment without necessarily sacrificing performance.

I've played with the Fischer frame the OP suggested for about 1 year. I found it very arm friendly, but lacking in power. In fact, I ended up avoiding use of the Fischer frame for sinlges play because I found it too difficult to maintain a deep ball consistently. At the time, I rresoted to using the k90 for singles and the Fisher for dubs. This was clearly a sub-optimal solution.

My experimentation eventually led me to the Volkl brand. I tried the C10 Pro, the DNX10 mid, the Becker 11 mids, and recently the PB10mid. I even resorted to the older C10 Pro Tour (93) for a brief spell. All these frames were arm friendly and performance oriented. Some were more demanding than others.

The new PB10mid is my current frame of choice and is very arm friendly. It is a unique frame that provides adequate power for an agressive player, incredible feel and control. It hits like it weighs substantially more, yet it swings much easier than it's specs lead one to believe.

If the PK doesn't work due to performance being sacrificed, I highly recommend trying the PB10mid. From what I understand, 2 of TW's testers have made the switch to this frame since it came out.

[LuckyR]

In my experience the Volkl (some arm protection, OK playability) is the natural progression from the PK (all arm protection, little playability).

[jimanuel12]

Originally Posted by siata94

another data point...

When I got TE, I too started w/ the 5g and nat gut and low tension and it was, at the time, best thing since slice bread.

I've long since switched to the Fischer MPro1 105 SL and many times, I've tried picking up the 5G again. For my game, mishits and shanks are huge parts of my arsenal, the 5G still plays relatively stiff, indicative of its stiffness rating. Eventho the Fischer is slightly larger, it doesn't really help w/ my usual shanks but it plays very flexible as expected.

My TE prefers the Fischer.

update:

after several months of rehab on the elbow - 9 month layoff --my TE is now much better.
i used the flexbar after the elbow got better and laid off tennis for 9 months.
i tried the kennex 5G but i was not impressed with it being an arm friendly racket.
i then went to a fischer pro 105 - wow--what a difference.
i started to play again in March of this year. the fischer was a very arm friendly racket and now i have 5 of them.
fischers are very flexalbe, arm rackets. i would recommend them for folks with arm problems.
i can play now for the most part, without any or little arm pain.
thanks to fischer rackets.