Got Bagels?

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by jayserinos99

Browsing through the thread, I'm wondering if Cindy isn't a sandbagger at 3.5?

Nah. I think at this point I am a strong 3.5, but I'm not a 4.0 because I tend to lose to 4.0s. In fact, I think my results this year will keep me at 3.5 for 2011. Especially since the double bagels don't count.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Nah. I think at this point I am a strong 3.5, but I'm not a 4.0 because I tend to lose to 4.0s. In fact, I think my results this year will keep me at 3.5 for 2011. Especially since the double bagels don't count.

Do you lose 6-0 6-0 to 4.0's? If not then I would submit you are closer to your 4.0 competition than your 3.5 competition.

Just because your results allow you to continue playing in 3.5 (since your double bagels don't count), doesn't mean you would not benefit more from playing in 4.0 where your game could improve playing better competition. If the whole thing is about being a better player... be on the trailing edge of your competition not the leading edge.

I have always contended that in order to play your best tennis you need to play those weaker than you (to learn to win), play those equal to you (to learn to compete), and to play those better than you (to learn how much more there is to improve).

But the majority of those matches should be with your peers, and those matches would be tightly contested with you winning about 50% of the time.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

Do you lose 6-0 6-0 to 4.0's? If not then I would submit you are closer to your 4.0 competition than your 3.5 competition.

I am on three 3.5 teams this season and one 4.0 team.

I am 1-1 in 4.0 play. In one match, my 4.0 partner and I upset two medium 4.0s in an amazing comeback. In the other match, I stank the joint up and lost to two 4.0s with a 4.0 partner.

In spring 3.5 play, I am 3-1 in doubles and 1-0 in singles (against a 3.0).

Which proves exactly what I said: I am a strong 3.5.

My plan is to continue to play 3.5 until the computer moves me up. I will continue to play 4.0 whenever the opportunity presents. I will stick with 7.0 mixed and avoid 8.0 mixed until I start playing better against the men.

So. No sandbagging here. Just someone who is improving her technical and mental game.

[bodieq]

What's interesting is that you see these bagel-sets and blow-out matches even at a ATP professional level (although very rare). Last month I was watching TennisChannel and saw Nadal beat Verdasco 6-0, 6-1 in the Finals of Monte Carlo (I think it was MonteCarlo?). The thing is, Verdasco wasn't playing poorly....it's just that a healthy, motivated Nadal on clay was playing out of his mind in that match.

...The only point I'm making here is that sometimes you'll play people of comparable level as you and there might be a bagel set in that particular match on that particular day. Doesn't mean the opponent is way below your level. So whenever you get a bagel set against an opponent I think there's reason to feel good about that accomplishment.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by bodieq

What's interesting is that you see these bagel-sets and blow-out matches even at a ATP professional level (although very rare). Last month I was watching TennisChannel and saw Nadal beat Verdasco 6-0, 6-1 in the Finals of Monte Carlo (I think it was MonteCarlo?). The thing is, Verdasco wasn't playing poorly....it's just that a healthy, motivated Nadal on clay was playing out of his mind in that match.

...The only point I'm making here is that sometimes you'll play people of comparable level as you and there might be a bagel set in that particular match on that particular day. Doesn't mean the opponent is way below your level. So whenever you get a bagel set against an opponent I think there's reason to feel good about that accomplishment.

I think you fail to see the point... Verdasco is not Nadal... the reason they play at the same level is that there is nothing higher.

I am not so much saying that lobsided scores cannot happen, more so that there is no need to openly celebrate them.

I watched an old friend play a quarter final match in 3.5's last week, he was up against a seeded player. During warmup I was wondering what this guy was doing in 3.5, he had a solid looking game with great strokes. He should have been competing with 4.5 players. OK... once started the player became a pusher...

He double bageled my friend and on matchpoint screamed out YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.... Now... call me a little sensitive... but him winning in my mind was never in question... I just didn't understand the outburst at matchpoint. It all seemed a little classless to me.

There are times to celebrate... after a hard fought match or point... but I don't see the revelance of celebrating your total dominance of another player.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I am on three 3.5 teams this season and one 4.0 team.

I am 1-1 in 4.0 play. In one match, my 4.0 partner and I upset two medium 4.0s in an amazing comeback. In the other match, I stank the joint up and lost to two 4.0s with a 4.0 partner.

In spring 3.5 play, I am 3-1 in doubles and 1-0 in singles (against a 3.0).

Which proves exactly what I said: I am a strong 3.5.

My plan is to continue to play 3.5 until the computer moves me up. I will continue to play 4.0 whenever the opportunity presents. I will stick with 7.0 mixed and avoid 8.0 mixed until I start playing better against the men.

So. No sandbagging here. Just someone who is improving her technical and mental game.

No sandbagging...

I don't have all your scores... but of the ones you have provided. One doubles match 6-0 6-0, second match 6-3 6-0 and your only singles match 6-0 6-2, along with your 1-1 record at 4.0 don't you think you are a little better than your current competition. You are averaging 1 bagel a match.

But I understand if you want to stay in 3.5, winning is fun... but if you want to improve faster, move up and play better players.

I get the most out of tennis when I have been pushed to the edge and was able to push back. Winning becomes meaningless if the competition does not challenge you.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

No sandbagging...

I don't have all your scores... but of the ones you have provided. One doubles match 6-0 6-0, second match 6-3 6-0 and your only singles match 6-0 6-2, along with your 1-1 record at 4.0 don't you think you are a little better than your current competition. You are averaging 1 bagel a match.

Dang, Ripper. Are you just trying to be contrary for the sport of it?

I just returned from a 3.5 doubles match. The opponents are hoping to go to nationals and are a lock to make the playoffs in our flight. My partner and I lost 4-6, 7-5, 1-0.

I am a strong 3.5, like tonight's opponents. I am afraid you will simply have to take my word for it.

I am getting better. It shows in my results. I am playing up, and when I do play 3.5 I do line-ups where I play tough opponents and I don't hog the strongest partners. I am getting plenty of challenges, thank you very much.

Why do feel the need to get on my case about it?

If I manage another bagel against someone of my USTA level, I will be over the moon about it.

[equinox]

All the decent players got bumped up in one giant swoop..