Federer "gamesmanship" and Nadal gamesmanship+cheating were not the same.

[ViscaB]

All apologies.

[Berundi]

Originally Posted by dmt

. He has won all 7 of his slams fair and square. At wimbledon 07 the momentum was with nadal before he called his trainer so your argument there is pointless. He has won his 7 majors on his ability alone, sorry if that bothers you.

If he wins this W, it won't be fair and square. He cheated. I think that much is clear to all except blind worshippers of Nadal.

[Omega_7000]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

Unbelievable!

It really is unbelievable that some people still think Rafa had a legitimate injury...

[dmt]

Originally Posted by Berundi

If he wins this W, it won't be fair and square. He cheated. I think that much is clear to all except blind worshippers of Nadal.

actually if you consider what nadal did as cheating, then his opponent cheated too.

[namelessone]

Originally Posted by Omega_7000

It really is unbelievable that some people still think Rafa had a legitimate injury...

What does injury mean to you? He had a tight quad, in an area that has troubled him before, he got it massaged for three minutes and came back on court. Most MTO's are for small things that you feel can hamper your game, they can't really do anything for you on court if you have something major, now can they?

If you have something big or which you feel could worsen if you play more, you retire from the match.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by dmt

actually if you consider what nadal did as cheating, then his opponent cheated too.

It's rediculous to paint Petzschner and Nadal with the same paint brush. Rafa is the one who has the history of calling fake injury when he's down in the match. Plus, Rafa cheated for on court coaching.

Your comparison between the two players is just an attempt to minimize Rafa's guilt. You know Rafa was wrong but don't want to admit it. We know.

[rovex]

Originally Posted by TMF

It's rediculous to paint Petzschner and Nadal with the same paint brush. Rafa is the one who has the history of calling fake injury when he's down in the match. Plus, Rafa cheated for on court coaching.

Your comparison between the two players is just an attempt to minimize Rafa's guilt. You know Rafa was wrong but don't want to admit it. We know.

Your German press must be unhappy with Nadal...

[dmt]

Originally Posted by TMF

It's rediculous to paint Petzschner and Nadal with the same paint brush. Rafa is the one who has the history of calling fake injury when he's down in the match. Plus, Rafa cheated for on court coaching.

Your comparison between the two players is just an attempt to minimize Rafa's guilt. You know Rafa was wrong but don't want to admit it. We know.

yes we know toni should shut up and nadal even told his team to shut up? What more should he do, beat up his team or something?

And why didnt rafa fake injuries vs federer in 2007 masters cup, vs Tsonga in aussie open 08, or vs del potro at us open 09? Or at last years end of year championships when he lost every match?

[TMF]

Originally Posted by rovex

Your German press must be unhappy with Nadal...

Sorry, but many fans in here share the same view point aren't coming from German.

It's too obvious not to accept it. Even if I try real hard to defend Rafa, it would make me look silly. And I'm not going to do that. Anyone wants to look silly, be my guess!

[rovex]

Originally Posted by TMF

Sorry, but many fans in here share the same view point aren't coming from German.

It's too obvious not to accept it. Even if I try real hard to defend Rafa, it would make me look silly. And I'm not going to do that. Anyone wants to look silly, be my guess!

All i was saying was that i am sure your German press was annoyed about what Nadal did. Doesn't mean i disagreed with it. And since your from Germany you'd know more than I of what the press there made of it.

[jackson vile]

Originally Posted by AM95

Why?

Because.

Federer's "gamesmanship" did not involve faking two injuries.

Federer's "gamesmanship" was simply going to the bathroom. He took a long time, yes. But this disrupted his own already poor rhythm, and in-fact, he was broken in his second service game.

The reason Federer won his match at the AO was because of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2KD...elated#t=9m50s

its already linked for your conveniece.

That backhand miss was the turning point in the match. Cahill and Gilbert both spoke about it ( i will try to find this)

__________________________________________________ _______________

Lets talk about Nadal and his gamesmanship and cheating:

Nadal called out the trainer at around 5-4 in the third set complaining of pain in his bicep/forearm. Ok, perfectly acceptable. The trainer is waived off because treatment will begin after the end of the set. Ok, that seems fair, doesnt want to distrupt the rhythm of the match.

Nadal calls trainer out at 2-1 with PP serving. This time the "injury" is in his knees. Ok...so which one is it. There is no treatment for the forearm injury and only the knees are treated.

Later we find out later that during the MTO, Nadal is given a silent warning that he needs to stop being coached. Nadal complains and tells his box to stfu.

After the MTO, Nadal breezes through the set and PP can barely get a first serve in

Fifth set, Nadal gets a code violation for illegal on court coaching.

So what do we see from this match. Gamesmanship is ok. Players should be able to overcome it. If Federer did commit gamesmanship, Davy overcame it and broke him but later choked.

Nadal's gamesmanship is fine too, although i dont like it because he does it in every match (fist pump UE, taking extra time between changeovers, serves). However, Nadal literally cheated today. He was caught red-handed and i want nadal-*****, like CMM and babbbete to admit it.

You are a total fruit cake LOL

Petzschner called for injury time outs as well

There was no coaching get real!

Federer out right cheated and then admitted that was his intention.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by dmt

yes we know toni should shut up and nadal even told his team to shut up? What more should he do, beat up his team or something?

And why didnt rafa fake injuries vs federer in 2007 masters cup, vs Tsonga in aussie open 08, or vs del potro at us open 09? Or at last years end of year championships when he lost every match?

Nadal yell out "shut up" was an attempt to tell the umpire that it's not his fault, but his uncle. I know what he's up too. He wants coaching, but when getting caught, he act as if he didn't want it but his coach is to blame. Rafa is really slick, you know that.

You expect rafa to call EVERY injury timouts when he's down is a solid proof? No, there's number of matches that he did the same thing yesterday. And that's good enough evidence to prove out point. Plus, none of the timeout were never called when he's up 2 set to 0. Wonder why???

[jackson vile]

Originally Posted by TheNatural

This is a good one LOL


Oh no honest, Roger is fair and square even though he admitted to cheating.

[dmt]

Originally Posted by TMF

Nadal yell out "shut up" was an attempt to tell the umpire that it's not his fault, but his uncle. I know what he's up too. He wants coaching, but when getting caught, he act as if he didn't want it but his coach is to blame. Rafa is really slick, you know that.

You expect rafa to call EVERY injury timouts when he's down is a solid proof? No, there's number of matches that he did the same thing yesterday. And that's good enough evidence to prove out point. Plus, none of the timeout were never called when he's up 2 set to 0. Wonder why???

but if memory serves me correct, he was winning 4-1 at wimby 07 before he called his trainer, right? I mean yes he was down 2 sets to 1 but he was winning the 4th rather easily and the momentum was with him. I havent see this match in a while though so i am not sure. So is calling your trainer when you are up 4-1 and the momentum is with you "cheating" as well?

[TMF]

Originally Posted by dmt

but if memory serves me correct, he was winning 4-1 at wimby 07 before he called his trainer, right? I mean yes he was down 2 sets to 1 but he was winning the 4th rather easily and the momentum was with him. I havent see this match in a while though so i am not sure. So is calling your trainer when you are up 4-1 and the momentum is with you "cheating" as well?

Still, he was playing catch up in 2007. In that match he had the trainer wrap tape around his knee for precaution. But the match yesterday was different...there's no evidence of him having problem with his knee(and his arm). After the timeout,hHe played better and Petzchner was never the same guy. That's the fact.

[namelessone]

Originally Posted by dmt

yes we know toni should shut up and nadal even told his team to shut up? What more should he do, beat up his team or something?

And why didnt rafa fake injuries vs federer in 2007 masters cup, vs Tsonga in aussie open 08, or vs del potro at us open 09? Or at last years end of year championships when he lost every match?

According to TW, he somehow knew that he would lose these matches and he didn't bother but he knew that a 4th set timeout at 2-1 with PP would definitely gift him the break as he read PP and knew he would crumble. He can only fake injuries against lower ranked guys.

[MichaelNadal]

Lol great post ^

[namelessone]

Originally Posted by TMF

There's no evidence of him having problem with his knee(and his arm). After the timeout,hHe played better and Petzchner was never the same guy. That's the fact.

How do you know this? Are you Nadal?

Did it ever occur to you that PP played worse because his serve was already starting to go, before Nadal's MTO? He nearly got broken in his first service game in the fourth, saving 2 BP's.

And what would it take for you to definitely say "yes this guy clearly has something bothering him in his arm or quad" ?

I hope you do know that most MTO's are for minor things but that can bother the player at hand. Your arm shouldn't be falling off and your leg shouldn't be broken for you to call the trainer. If it is anything major, you have to retire or risk further injury.

I wonder what people's reaction would be if Nadal would serve, get broken, have his arm checked out and then his opponent would gift the re-break. It would probably be an outrage still.

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by Omega_7000

It really is unbelievable that some people still think Rafa had a legitimate injury...

No, unbelievable that people feel so threatened.

Not one person on this forum knows his extensive medical history, or how he was feeling in the moment.

To speculate, call someone a cheat, and be so downright cruel is what is unbelievable.

I can't imagine feeling an ounce of the vitriol I see witnessed on this board on a daily basis.

but, then I'm glad I don't know these people in the real world.

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by jackson vile

This is a good one LOL


Oh no honest, Roger is fair and square even though he admitted to cheating.

Amazing, and they still don't see how they come off. Roger actually admitted it, but somehow they twist it into something else.

I guess he would have to pan to the camera and say, "To my fans at TW, I really did cheat. Seriously." Lol!