Eagnas Flex 940 swivel clamp issues

[barry]

Originally Posted by Lakers4Life

I kinda agree with you, but the quality between an Eagnas and a Gamma are night and day. The Taiwan made machines are much better quality than the China made machine. Prince and Gamma machines are still made in Taiwan. Eagnas were also made in Taiwan, up until a few years ago, then the company switched to China production. The difference in the Eagnas machines that were made in Taiwan and China are also night and day.

The main difference is the tollerances and the quality of parts. Like the Cone-Lock base clamps of the Flex 940. Before they had adjustable handles, now they are fixed. As for the tension head it had not changed, though the Gamma tension heads are much beefier than the Eagnas. I recently got a Plus 6500 as a backup machine, and was surprised the tensionhead was spot on when I tested it.

The real question is if you strung 2 rackets; one on each of your two machines, could anyone tell the difference? I have an Eagnas and get a lot of frames that were strung on expensive machines, mainly Prince and Babolat, but the feedback I get is they can't tell any difference. I still believe the stringer is more important than the machine, and paying a lot for a machine does not guarantee a good string job. I have to agree with Lawdog, machines are really simple devices and do not warrant high cost.

[Lakers4Life]

That's true, I've seen rackets strung on high end machine strung badly. It probably the operator's fault or bad machine mantainance. I've always said that all machines do the same job, it's all a matter of simple you want that job to be.

A poorly maintained machine is more like to break down or cause damage to the racket.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by lawdog

I'd be interested in hearing more specifically about how the inner workings of the spring-assisted clamp bases are "cheap" or "not a quality product". I own a 910 and one of the first things I did when I got it was to disassemble the clamp bases. The base utilizes an extremely simple mechanism and consists essentially of four solid metal parts. I'll concede that the bases don't use polished stainless steel handles like some more expensive spring-assisted clamp bases, but that hardly equates to cheap construction.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'll throw in that I think crank-tensioned stringers are such simple and basic machines that it's silly to pay upwards of $600 for one. I've heard comparisons like "the Eagnas is a Kia and the Gamma is a Lexus", but these comparisons fail to recognize that cars are complex machines and crank stringers are not. Basically, a crank stringer consists of a spring that measures the tension and some clamps, the rest of the machine is simply metal structure that doesn't affect the machine's performance. Unlike a car, a crank stringer is exactly the sort of simple machine that the Chinese can accurately and inexpensively replicate with little loss in quality.

Lakers said it perfectly: the Eagnas clamps are not built to the same quality standards as other companies' clamps. One of my Eagnas clamps worked flawlessly: buttery smooth action, smooth glide, tight clamping to the turntable. The other clamp needed to constantly be adjusted to keep it gliding and clamping all at the same setting. It would get loose enough to become unlocked even just by holding tension! The parts used to make them are made on a budget, and because of that, you really are shooting in the dark which makes a great point about the equipment: if two clamps are 200 dollars of a 500 dollar machine, then just how cheap is the rest of the equipment, or just how badly are Eagnas gouging you?

Originally Posted by barry

The real question is if you strung 2 rackets; one on each of your two machines, could anyone tell the difference? I have an Eagnas and get a lot of frames that were strung on expensive machines, mainly Prince and Babolat, but the feedback I get is they can't tell any difference. I still believe the stringer is more important than the machine, and paying a lot for a machine does not guarantee a good string job. I have to agree with Lawdog, machines are really simple devices and do not warrant high cost.

I agree. The stringer makes the machine do its best work, but the machine can slow down or add elements to the stringjob that the good stringer otherwise would not expect to happen (i.e. uneven mounting points causing undue stress on the frame).

[Sports101]

lawdog, You said that you own a 910, and Im guessing that you don't agree with the negative comparisons. Would you recommend me buy a 910? Is it worth it, and is it durable enough? Im looking to buy a stringing machine and this has been my top choice for some time. Let me know, thank you.

[lawdog]

Sports: Sorry for the delay. I've been out-of-pocket for a couple days. I wholeheartedly recommend the 910. To state my position briefly, the 910 is functional, accurate and inexpensive in comparison to the competition. In my opinion, that's all it needs to be. If you care to, then read on for some more in-depth thoughts.

When I was looking for a machine, the 910 was the best value I found--it accurately strings racquets and costs less than other comparable machines. I wouldn't disagree with all of the negative comparisons, but I would say that they are largely misplaced. For example, the paint is thin and the machine has been assembled/disassembled before you receive it, so there will likely be some chips, etc. I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing for Eagnas to verify that all the parts fit together before sending a machine out, but I understand that some people might disagree. More importantly, for me, the proper measure of a stringing machine's vaule is not it's paint job, but it's ability to produce consistent results when used in a consistent manner. I think the 910 achieves this goal.

A crank stringing machine is basically just a stand, table, center bearing, crank and clamps. As far as the stand and table are concerned, all they need to do is hold the machine level and withstand the moderate forces that stringing puts on them. The bearing just needs to be stable and smooth to rotate the table. The crank just needs to be accurate. My 910 satisfies all of these requirements. In addition, I didn't find a single complaint about any of these criteria when I was doing my research on the 910.

As pvaudio points out, the clamps are 40% of the 910's cost. I don't think that this necessarily means either Eagnas is gouging customers or the rest of the machine is "cheap". With regard to accusation of gouging, I think this is simply a pricing strategy that gives the customer a basic choice: (i) don't pay for the spring clamps, (ii) pay $200 for the clamps after you buy a machine or (iii) pay $100 to step up to the machine with the spring clamps when you buy. Based on this pricing structure, I would guess that profit margins are higher on the 910 than on the step down machines without the spring clamps. Price gouging, however, occurs not when sellers use pricing structures to encourage buyers to purchase high-profit-margin items, but when sellers take advantage in an unfair or improper way of a buyer's weakened position (e.g., by overcharging for a necessity like gas during a shortage). With regard to the rest of the machine being inexpensive, my point is exactly that, because of its simplicity, the entire machine should be inexpensive.

[lawdog]

Almost forgot, I would also agree that Maxline, the small and sole U.S. Eagnas importer, is run by an eccentric individual who is short on patience. I didn't have any problems, but its probably wise to be polite, tread lightly and pay with a credit card. There are laws that govern the sale of goods (specifically, Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code, as adopted by CA), but they can be a hassle and are not particularly consumer friendly. By contrast, the credit card dispute process is simple, powerful and easy to navigate.

Also, only because I noticed it, I'll point out that Eagnas claims on it's website to hold U.S. patent No. 4,706,695 for it's self-centering mounts. The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), however, lists no such patent for Eagnas or Maxline. In fact, if you search the USPTO's website at http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html, you'll see that neither Eagnas or Maxline hold any U.S. patents.

[lawdog]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

Lakers said it perfectly: the Eagnas clamps are not built to the same quality standards as other companies' clamps. One of my Eagnas clamps worked flawlessly: buttery smooth action, smooth glide, tight clamping to the turntable. The other clamp needed to constantly be adjusted to keep it gliding and clamping all at the same setting. It would get loose enough to become unlocked even just by holding tension! The parts used to make them are made on a budget, and because of that, you really are shooting in the dark which makes a great point about the equipment: if two clamps are 200 dollars of a 500 dollar machine, then just how cheap is the rest of the equipment, or just how badly are Eagnas gouging you?

I'll try to get a video of the inner workings of the clamps at some point. In the meantime, this sounds like the thread lock on the adjustment screw had dissipated--a simple fix that has little, if anything, to do with quality of construction of the clamp bases.

Also, do you think that Prince and/or Gamma parts are not "made on a budget"? All manufacturing is done with an eye toward cost. Have you ever asked Gamma, Prince or any of the other major manufacturers how much they charge for clamp bases to upgrade one of their machines?

[Sports101]

Thank you so much Lawdog, you have been a big help. I plan on getting one as soon as possible, and I will let you know what I think, or if I have any other questions. I appreciate it.

Sports101

[Sports101]

Oh what do you think would be the best way to buy it? I live close enough to drive to Maxline, so buy it with a credit card, and go pick it up? Any suggestions?

[mad dog1]

i owned a combo 910 before getting a prince neos 1000. the combo 910 is a decent machine for the price, but i couldn't get used to the wobble of the turntable especially as i was coming from the flex 865s which had a turntable that had no play whatsoever. i'm glad i got the neos 1000 as the quality & fit of the machine is much better than the combo 910. i would buy a combo 910 used, but i wouldn't pay the new price. however, if you're set on getting a new 910, then yes, since you're local, pay for it w/ credit card & go pick it up.

[Lakers4Life]

Originally Posted by Sports101

Oh what do you think would be the best way to buy it? I live close enough to drive to Maxline, so buy it with a credit card, and go pick it up? Any suggestions?

Now that you mentioned it, there is a Alpha Revo 4000 in the south bay going for about $450. A better deal than new Combo 910. It's basically the same machine, just a table top version.

Originally Posted by mad dog1

i owned a combo 910 before getting a prince neos 1000. the combo 910 is a decent machine for the price, but i couldn't get used to the wobble of the turntable especially as i was coming from the flex 865s which had a turntable that had no play whatsoever. i'm glad i got the neos 1000 as the quality & fit of the machine is much better than the combo 910. i would buy a combo 910 used, but i wouldn't pay the new price. however, if you're set on getting a new 910, then yes, since you're local, pay for it w/ credit card & go pick it up.

I did have a wobble with my Flex 940, but not with my Plus 6500. I was able to fix it by cleaning and greasing the turntable shaft. My Gamma 5003 also had a wobble but after a few adjustments it works fine.

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Lakers4Life

I did have a wobble with my Flex 940, but not with my Plus 6500. I was able to fix it by cleaning and greasing the turntable shaft. My Gamma 5003 also had a wobble but after a few adjustments it works fine.

no amount of grease & cleaning would eliminate the wobble & play my flex 940 & combo 910 had. the manufacturing tolerances of the shaft were very generous.

the Plus 6500 seems to be a different/better animal. it seems to be built to much tighter tolerances.

[Lakers4Life]

It all depends on the user, I guess. All Eagnas machines are built the same. Though the older ones seem to have better quality that the newer ones. The Plus 6500 is not any better, just a different turntable and brake.

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Lakers4Life

The Plus 6500 is not any better, just a different turntable and brake.

i haven't seen or used the plus 6500 firsthand. i've only seen a video of the turntable being spun around and rocked left to right and it seems tight (ie no wobble). that's what i meant was better. i should've qualified my response. the swivel bases, clamps and tension head are all identical to the combo 910.

[Lakers4Life]

Originally Posted by mad dog1

i haven't seen or used the plus 6500 firsthand. i've only seen a video of the turntable being spun around and rocked left to right and it seems tight (ie no wobble). that's what i meant was better. i should've qualified my response. the swivel bases, clamps and tension head are all identical to the combo 910.

Dude, that's a contradiction in terms. There a lot of factors that would cause a table to wobble, most are atributed to loose bolts and un-seated parts.

[tbuggle]

my 910 does have a tiny amount of wobble. i don't see it as a problem, it's not sloppy.

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by Lakers4Life

Dude, that's a contradiction in terms. There a lot of factors that would cause a table to wobble, most are atributed to loose bolts and un-seated parts.

nope, not a contradiction in terms. since another member got the plus 6500, i specifically asked if he was experiencing any wobble in his machine. he sent me a video demonstrating it was wobble free by spinning it and rocking it from left to right. when he tried rocking it, there was no play. that's why i said i haven't seen it first hand, but am reasonably confident the quality of the turntable mount is better than the 910.

i can assure you that my 910 and 940 were properly assembled & had no loose bolts. it's the design that allows for the play. the design of the flex 865s turntable is much better which is why there is no play. i suspect the design of the plus 6500 is also better than that of the 940 & 910 but i don't know for sure since i don't have one.

[Lakers4Life]

Rocking and wobble are the same thing. SO you saying it rocked but did not wobble is a bit confusing. It either does or it doesn't. Though if it were slightly misaligned, it would seem to rock when spun.

The Flex 940 and Combo 910 are practically the same machine, the only difference are the base clamps. The Flex 865s is really a table top machine on a stand. If the Flex 865s has the same center mount of the Flex 740 it's totally different from the Combo 910/Flex 940. It's kind of backwards in design.

I think it's the disc brake that causes some of the wobble. The screw brake on the Plus 6500 is the same screw brake on the Flex 920. Much more simple in design.

[lawdog]

Originally Posted by Sports101

Oh what do you think would be the best way to buy it? I live close enough to drive to Maxline, so buy it with a credit card, and go pick it up? Any suggestions?

I'd pay with a CC and go pick it up to save the cost of shipping. I had mine shipped to the east coast (~$50). Also call to confirm they have one on hand before you make the drive. Keep the packaging until you've strung a few racquets and are satisfied with the machine (I'd do this with any stringer). Dude who runs Maxline will allow you to return the machine if you don't like it. I don't expect you'll have any problems. If you do, then be polite with the owner, he definitely strikes me as a little eccentric, though not unreasonably so.

[tbuggle]

Originally Posted by Lakers4Life

Rocking and wobble are the same thing. SO you saying it rocked but did not wobble is a bit confusing. It either does or it doesn't. Though if it were slightly misaligned, it would seem to rock when spun.

The Flex 940 and Combo 910 are practically the same machine, the only difference are the base clamps. The Flex 865s is really a table top machine on a stand. If the Flex 865s has the same center mount of the Flex 740 it's totally different from the Combo 910/Flex 940. It's kind of backwards in design.

I think it's the disc brake that causes some of the wobble. The screw brake on the Plus 6500 is the same screw brake on the Flex 920. Much more simple in design.

i don't think he was implying that the machine wobbled, but rather that the guy rocked it to and fro and it didn't wobble.

and disc brakes don't cause any wobble, the disc has enough free play on the bolts so that it doesn't affect the turning table at all.