Current Big XII player playing 4.5?!?!?

[goober]

He is a true sandbagger. During the regular season he wins only one match including losing one match 6-1, 6-2. Then in sectionals he shows up and goes undefeated in 5 straight matches. I can't figure out why a D1 player would even bother with such a ruse, but it is pretty embarrassing for him and his team.

[atatu]

Originally Posted by Perry the Platypus

FWIIW - he just finished going 5-0 in singles at sectionals without dropping a set. The computers will take care of his rating for next season, but it just seems to me that a little common sense could have been applied in this case.....

Current DI players at BCS schools (no matter where on the team they play) do not belong in 4.5 leagues.

It's a joke really, the USTA could care less though.

[RogerRacket111]

I need to write an iphone App to takes pictures of posers and self-rate cheats and sends it out to USTA with time and geo-tag information to confirm. What do you guys think ?

[atatu]

I think the USTA doesn't care, so the App would be in vain.

[Perry the Platypus]

In fairness to the kid that 1 & 2 loss was at 5.0, but it was obvious he didn't try. He played the same 5.0 guy later and lost a buster, but yes he did seem to rediscover his game at sectionals...

[polski]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

If it is Drew Freeman he is not a NTRP adult 4.5. Not even close. On tennisrecruiting.net is a three star recent graduate, class of 2008. He has wins over four star seniors.

My son is a three star eighth grader. Skill wise he is a middle of the rode NTRP 4.5. In four years if he keeps a three star rating no 4.5 will be able to win a game off of him. The three star seniors in our town are untouchable by a 4.5

This wouldn't be the case around me in South Carolina. We have some 3-star boys (2 rising seniors that come to mind) that can get pushed by solid, 30-40 year old 4.5's at our club. I don't know if the men win matches, but they don't get shut out either.

If your kid is pushing around 4.5's as an 8th grader, I'd be willing to bet he will get another star next to his name come October. I hope so & good luck to him!

[goober]

Originally Posted by Perry the Platypus

In fairness to the kid that 1 & 2 loss was at 5.0, but it was obvious he didn't try. He played the same 5.0 guy later and lost a buster, but yes he did seem to rediscover his game at sectionals...

LOL he didn't "rediscover" his game. His game was always there. He just decided to actually try when it mattered and throw games in the season in order not to get DQ'ed. Any other interpretations of his results based on his background is wishful thinking.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by polski

This wouldn't be the case around me in South Carolina. We have some 3-star boys (2 rising seniors that come to mind) that can get pushed by solid, 30-40 year old 4.5's at our club. I don't know if the men win matches, but they don't get shut out either.

If your kid is pushing around 4.5's as an 8th grader, I'd be willing to bet he will get another star next to his name come October. I hope so & good luck to him!

I am (or was, I lost 3 rounds ago...) playing in a tournament in NJ right now. The tournament is at the semifinals right now. There is a 3-star 8th grader that is seeded #3 in the B draw that just ripped through three solid local 4.5 league players 6-0 6-2, 6-1 6-3, and 6-2 6-3. A 3-star freshman qualified for the open draw by beating a local 5.0 6-0 6-2 and one of the top area 4.5s 6-3 6-2 before falling to a 5.0 level open torunament player in the main draw.

A 2 star junior won our county tournament this year beating the 5.0 rated defending champ 6-1 6-3 in the quarters and a 5.5 who's won the tournament 6 times 7-5 6-3 in the finals.

A 3 star senior (around here at least) is at least a 5.0 rated player and probably hgher.

[JLyon]

He should be DQ'ed immediately if MV has any integrity left. I could not even get a former Walk-on at SEC school down to 5.0, Southern placed him at 6.0 and allowed appeal to 5.5.
Actually this kid is no different than a player on the SW 4.5 Team going to Nationals who played at a D1 school in 2003 or so and also sits on a USTA Committee, yet somehow self-rated 4.5. Guess he just missed some questions.

[Z-Man]

At least he's not playing 4.0. One of the Alabama teams had a former college player playing singles. He was destroying everybody at state and sectionals. (He even beat our singles player who we thought was pretty good.) I asked the captain if he was worried about the guy getting DQ'd. He said he wasn't worried because the guy was bulletproof--he had a computer rating. Their whole team was like that. They had been carefully recruited from around the state and they all had managed their ratings for this run at nationals. There was another thead about this, but this same guy beat another guy in the state finals, and the other guy (who lost) got DQ'd.

Welcome to the USTA, where former college players get a free pass and the weekend warriors get DQ'd. That said, 5.0 is mostly just a concept, not a real level. Unless you're in an urban area with lots of 5.0 players, League tennis really ends at 4.5. I'd be fine if they'd just change 4.5 to open. I think the USTA did it wrong when they bumped massive numbers of people up. They still didn't address the issue at the top, and it all rolls downhill. To really fix it, they need to:

1) Bump enough 4.5s to 5.0 so that 5.0 becomes viable. That would get the 4.5s out of 4.0 and so on, opening up more space in all of the levels.

or

2) Let 4.5 be what it already is--open tennis. That would push everyone down and make 3.0 much more viable. If they did that, you might even see some men's 2.5 teams. Right now, there is no place for a true beginner.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by Z-Man

At least he's not playing 4.0. One of the Alabama teams had a former college player playing singles. He was destroying everybody at state and sectionals. (He even beat our singles player who we thought was pretty good.) I asked the captain if he was worried about the guy getting DQ'd. He said he wasn't worried because the guy was bulletproof--he had a computer rating. Their whole team was like that. They had been carefully recruited from around the state and they all had managed their ratings for this run at nationals. There was another thead about this, but this same guy beat another guy in the state finals, and the other guy (who lost) got DQ'd.

Welcome to the USTA, where former college players get a free pass and the weekend warriors get DQ'd. That said, 5.0 is mostly just a concept, not a real level. Unless you're in an urban area with lots of 5.0 players, League tennis really ends at 4.5. I'd be fine if they'd just change 4.5 to open. I think the USTA did it wrong when they bumped massive numbers of people up. They still didn't address the issue at the top, and it all rolls downhill. To really fix it, they need to:

1) Bump enough 4.5s to 5.0 so that 5.0 becomes viable. That would get the 4.5s out of 4.0 and so on, opening up more space in all of the levels.

or

2) Let 4.5 be what it already is--open tennis. That would push everyone down and make 3.0 much more viable. If they did that, you might even see some men's 2.5 teams. Right now, there is no place for a true beginner.

(1) is exactly what happened here. For this first time I can remember, there were actual competitive 5.0 leagues around here and the true ringers at 4.5 had a league to play in.

As for the 4.0 team, was it a former D1 player or just a college player? There are plenty of former run-of-the-mill college players from D3 that are legit 4.0s (although under 35 they will be forced to 4.5 if they answer the questionnaire correctly). Recent or current D1, especially from a major conference like Big 12, there is ZERO chance that they are 4.5 and it's probably unlikely they are even 5.0 really.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by JLyon

He should be DQ'ed immediately if MV has any integrity left. I could not even get a former Walk-on at SEC school down to 5.0, Southern placed him at 6.0 and allowed appeal to 5.5.
Actually this kid is no different than a player on the SW 4.5 Team going to Nationals who played at a D1 school in 2003 or so and also sits on a USTA Committee, yet somehow self-rated 4.5. Guess he just missed some questions.

The team lost in sectional semifinals, so it's irrelevant now.

[Z-Man]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

(1) is exactly what happened here. For this first time I can remember, there were actual competitive 5.0 leagues around here and the true ringers at 4.5 had a league to play in.

As for the 4.0 team, was it a former D1 player or just a college player? There are plenty of former run-of-the-mill college players from D3 that are legit 4.0s (although under 35 they will be forced to 4.5 if they answer the questionnaire correctly). Recent or current D1, especially from a major conference like Big 12, there is ZERO chance that they are 4.5 and it's probably unlikely they are even 5.0 really.

I don't know for sure, but the word going around town at sectionals was that he played D1 at some point and was rated 5.5 or something like that and worked his way down the ratings. I see on his record that he won a large tournament at 4.5 this year, winning the finals 6-1 6-1. The guy clearly played some serious college tennis and had no business playing at 4.0.

But wait, it gets better. He finally got beaten at sectionals in a tiebreaker. The guy who beat him coaches at a small D1 school and was smart to not play singles until the finals of his state tournament. Then he played every match at sectionals, running the table. Everyone on his team formerly played tennis at that same college. But they weren't deep enough in the doubles, and they didn't win sectionals. So it goes. Just when you think you've got the best team full of people in their last year at their current rating, you run into somebody who is willing to go way farther than you ever imagined.

[polski]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

I am (or was, I lost 3 rounds ago...) playing in a tournament in NJ right now. The tournament is at the semifinals right now. There is a 3-star 8th grader that is seeded #3 in the B draw that just ripped through three solid local 4.5 league players 6-0 6-2, 6-1 6-3, and 6-2 6-3. A 3-star freshman qualified for the open draw by beating a local 5.0 6-0 6-2 and one of the top area 4.5s 6-3 6-2 before falling to a 5.0 level open torunament player in the main draw.

A 2 star junior won our county tournament this year beating the 5.0 rated defending champ 6-1 6-3 in the quarters and a 5.5 who's won the tournament 6 times 7-5 6-3 in the finals.

A 3 star senior (around here at least) is at least a 5.0 rated player and probably hgher.

I have a feeling that 3-star's in NJ are probably similar in ability to 3-star's in SC. However, based on the facts that you provided combined with the relative lack of 5.0's that we have in SC, I think our NTRP's are a "wider spread" than what you have at the 4.5 level. There are several 4.5's that I play with and against that have mid-major or D2 tennis backgrounds...I'm sure that in their youth they were 2 or 3-star caliber players.

But again, I don't think any of these 4.5's are beating the highly ranked juniors. They probably are taking games (maybe a set here or there) off them & providing good practice competition.

[tlross1]

I'm a captain of a 4.5 team that went 23-2 and we lost to another 4.5 team locally that is now going on to Nationals. Why? Because they found 3 or 4 guys that are really 5.0 but bumped DOWN because of their mixed ratings. It's not fair, but it's life. The system is getting better now, but older players are hard to catch if they rated at 4.5 long ago. Just go find yourself a good ex college player and you'll be fine.

There are so many ways around the system, but play fair and find good guys and you'll win.

PS- "top ranked" kids lose all the time to guys like us, who know what we're doing and have experience on court, so spare me the "my kid is a stud". The studs lose to ex college players with less talent.

[JoelDali]

Originally Posted by tlross1

Just go find yourself a good ex college player and you'll be fine.

The legendary Al Parker is joining my team next year.

He agreed because our captain is paying him $125,000.